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  1. #1
    doug79920's Avatar
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    Dropped a Keeper

    Looking for some second/third thoughts.

    A keeper has fallen through the oil passage in the head down into the motor. I am almost 100% confident that it is has fallen all the way in the bottom case of the cylinder closest to the front of the ski (i believe cylinder 3). Magnetic retrieval is not possible.

    Should i spend the money on the gaskets to remove the head and cylinders to get into the bottom to retrieve it. Or will the oil flow move the keeper to the oil screen where i can pull it out in an hour or so of ride time?

    I have already spoken with Jerry and gotten his expertise, just wanted to pick as many brains as i can before risking my motor. Has anyone managed to make the same mistake I did?

    Thank you in advance.


  2. #2
    unanimously over-rated notabot's Avatar
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    Almost 100% is not 100%. Do you have the cash laying around for a new motor if this one grenades?

  3. #3
    !!!! wave jumper !!!! 05_RXP's Avatar
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    Cheap fixes cost lots of money in the long run.

    I would pull the motor apart till you find the keeper.


  4. #4
    id run it

  5. #5
    ptscon's Avatar
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    I think the only thing that can realistically go wrong is if it somehow gets caught in the timing chain before making to the pump screen. If you decide to ride it I would take it easy for a bit so no wave jumping just flat water so it stays at the bottom and gets sucked into one of the screens.

  6. #6
    doug79920's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notabot View Post
    Almost 100% is not 100%. Do you have the cash laying around for a new motor if this one grenades?
    I could never be 100% sure, i've got a bore scope on the way that's going to help but... thoughts on the following logic?

    There are oil passages in these 4 locations... That i now know about



    They come out here:




    Which drops into this channel here.






    From what i can see, that galley moves the oil from the head, back into the lower case through this hole under the piston on cylinder 3.





    Once it falls from that hole, it would likely land the keeper in the lower case under the crankshaft here





    Sorry for all the photos, just easier than trying to explain in writing.
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  7. #7
    search for it i would not start the engine with the keeper inside the Engine

  8. #8
    Site Admin Green Hulk's Avatar
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    I personally would run it and remove the keeper from the front oil pump screen after taking the ski out of the water.

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  10. #9
    doug79920's Avatar
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    Damn guys, Looking at the bottom end fully assembled without the bottom case. I really don't see where there could be damage done. I am certainly not one to drop something in a motor and leave it, which is why i posted this thread in the first place, both for your expertise and thoughts as well for anyone else in the future who manages to make this stupid mistake.

    It looks like the gears and cam chain is sealed by the case from the main crankshaft area and the oil flows through tunnels in the bottom case to get to the outside covers where the oil pumps and screens are(someone please correct me if this is wrong, I've not yet been in this motor so i'm just going by photos and videos i find). With this in mind the massive pull from the oil pumps(front and rear) would pull the keeper right from the tunnel into the screen and hold it there so the likeliness of it finding the crank gears or the cam chain is very slim(although certainly possible).

    If anyone else makes this same mistake, I'm leaning closer and closer to running it. Since my drive way has an angle ill point the nose down so that it gives the keeper the best chance of going to the front oil pump screen since that's easiest to get to. I'll start it on the hose running for 1.5 mins, then shutting down. letting the motor cool off completely since the shaft seal is cooled from the lake and can't be cooled with the hose. Then the next day running for a min and a half again. repeating a few times over a week or so. Then I just have to guess which side cover to take off, hopefully the front with the oil fill tube espesially since the keeper is in that front section.

    Lastly, I have been told that after the Ceramic supercharger washer issues that Seadoo had they beefed up the oil pump gears enough that should one of the washers explode and get through the oil screen, the gears are strong enough to grind the washers and leave the motor mostly unharmed. The mechanic that shared this info referenced a few oil pumps that he had disassembled (after the washer failure) which showed signs of scuffing however were undamaged and still provided ample oil pressure.

    My last few ideas are:

    #1 To take a small cylindrical neodymium magnet and drill a 3/32 hole through it. The use a 3/32 steel braided rope and crimp it at the end. Then push that through the hole in the head hoping it finds its way to the keeper.

    #2 Remove the motor from the ski. Hang it from the ceiling in my garage long ways, then shake the pi$$ out of it to drop the keeper to one end. My only concern with this is, based on the photos and videos, the piston/connecting rod sections are sealed from each other so the keeper would not be able to move from one end of the motor to the other without traveling through the tunnels I see in the photos and video.

    Any feedback, thoughts, opinions, knowledge is very much appreciated.

    Thank you to those who have commented. Part of the reason im being a bit cheap is i just dropped $2500 in Riva parts and mods and im a bit out of money completely.

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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by doug79920 View Post
    Damn guys, Looking at the bottom end fully assembled without the bottom case. I really don't see where there could be damage done. I am certainly not one to drop something in a motor and leave it, which is why i posted this thread in the first place, both for your expertise and thoughts as well for anyone else in the future who manages to make this stupid mistake.

    It looks like the gears and cam chain is sealed by the case from the main crankshaft area and the oil flows through tunnels in the bottom case to get to the outside covers where the oil pumps and screens are(someone please correct me if this is wrong, I've not yet been in this motor so i'm just going by photos and videos i find). With this in mind the massive pull from the oil pumps(front and rear) would pull the keeper right from the tunnel into the screen and hold it there so the likeliness of it finding the crank gears or the cam chain is very slim(although certainly possible).

    If anyone else makes this same mistake, I'm leaning closer and closer to running it. Since my drive way has an angle ill point the nose down so that it gives the keeper the best chance of going to the front oil pump screen since that's easiest to get to. I'll start it on the hose running for 1.5 mins, then shutting down. letting the motor cool off completely since the shaft seal is cooled from the lake and can't be cooled with the hose. Then the next day running for a min and a half again. repeating a few times over a week or so. Then I just have to guess which side cover to take off, hopefully the front with the oil fill tube espesially since the keeper is in that front section.

    Lastly, I have been told that after the Ceramic supercharger washer issues that Seadoo had they beefed up the oil pump gears enough that should one of the washers explode and get through the oil screen, the gears are strong enough to grind the washers and leave the motor mostly unharmed. The mechanic that shared this info referenced a few oil pumps that he had disassembled (after the washer failure) which showed signs of scuffing however were undamaged and still provided ample oil pressure.

    My last few ideas are:

    #1 To take a small cylindrical neodymium magnet and drill a 3/32 hole through it. The use a 3/32 steel braided rope and crimp it at the end. Then push that through the hole in the head hoping it finds its way to the keeper.

    #2 Remove the motor from the ski. Hang it from the ceiling in my garage long ways, then shake the pi$$ out of it to drop the keeper to one end. My only concern with this is, based on the photos and videos, the piston/connecting rod sections are sealed from each other so the keeper would not be able to move from one end of the motor to the other without traveling through the tunnels I see in the photos and video.

    Any feedback, thoughts, opinions, knowledge is very much appreciated.

    Thank you to those who have commented. Part of the reason im being a bit cheap is i just dropped $2500 in Riva parts and mods and im a bit out of money completely.

    Look at the crankshaft balance weights and the case webbing how close they are. What if the keper got slung in between the two. then your out a new case. I vote for pulling the bottom end off.

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