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  1. #31
    savageman69's Avatar
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    i didnt get to do any sensor testing...because i had to go help the boys build a 780, then they convinced me to throw the msx in the water too..so i figured id throw the old plugs in it and see what happens...well low and behold its better, now only misses once and a while at wot. So im hoping when the champion plugs arrive it straightens it out



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  2. #32
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    Okay well reviewing the old plugs after that test run and it appears only the mag is black now....not sure if its a bad plug or not. But the champions are here now...and installed and indexed best i could...2 are bang on and one is a 95 % id say so.






    cps....140 ohm
    exhaust temp....906 ohm
    air temp....904 ohm

    so sensors all check okay

    I also changed the grips and got my nice new lanyard and also ordered custom jettrim seat cover


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  3. #33
    radio-active's Avatar
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    2 questions.

    What grips did you install, and how big a project is that?

    How do you "index" the plugs?

  4. #34
    savageman69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radio-active View Post
    2 questions.

    What grips did you install, and how big a project is that?

    How do you "index" the plugs?
    the grips are odi cush...ive used about 10 sets on all my machines so cheap and awesome I love them...no not to hard....best way I've found us cut them off with a zacto blade scrape them down...spray with hair spray and inside grip with hair spay and push on...hair spray dries and they are stuck.

    Indexing is getting the open part of the electrode facing the injector...so mark the porcelain where that is...set torque wrench to 15ftlbs....and see where they end up...if not bump to 30ftlbs....if not at all try another plug as they are all set differently on the threads

  5. #35
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savageman69 View Post
    t
    Indexing is getting the open part of the electrode facing the injector...so mark the porcelain where that is...set torque wrench to 15ftlbs....and see where they end up...if not bump to 30ftlbs....if not at all try another plug as they are all set differently on the threads
    Interesting, I wonder where you heard about that

  6. #36
    radio-active's Avatar
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    That is interesting actually. I've never heard of that. I understand the theory behind getting the largest portion of the spark front facing the injector -- but has anyone ever seen a demonstrable effect from indexing plugs?

    In theory isn't the fuel mixture pretty well dispersed, compressed, "homogenized" in the cylinder by the time the plug fires?

    Now in the MSX 140 head design it may make more sense than in other engines. The plug comes into the head at a fairly severe angle, I guess the electrode could "shadow" the spark front to some significant extent.

    Thinking about it some more -- wouldn't you want the open portion of the electrode to face the combustion chamber rather than the injector? Just askin' ?

    Spark plug torque spec is 18ft lbs. 30 seems pretty high...

    Hey savageman69... in your pics above, it looks like you are boating in mud. What the heck is that all about? Is that lake/river always that brown?

  7. #37
    martincom's Avatar
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    "Indexing" spark plugs stems from drag racing. The actual gain in performance is in-discernible in terms of the "seat of the pants feeling". In racing, you're always scrapping for every fraction of an ounce of performance you can get.

    I had an auto shop instructor, in high school, you stated it the best: "Trying to find a single source where you can eliminate 100 pounds is near impossible and likely very expensive (aluminum engine parts verses cast iron). However, finding 100 sources where you can eliminate 1 pound is easy and cheap." The same analogy applies to horse power.

    Pretty much all the drag racing we did was "Bracket Racing". Rather than your racer being defined by class, it was by ET (elapsed time to run a 1/4 mile). You select your ET bracket range (dialing in) and you would be paired against another who could be a dramatically different performance level. They would offset the green go lamp, of the starting "Christmas tree", by the difference between your dial in times. Whoever crossed the finish line first won, PROVIDED they didn't cross the line quicker than their dial-in time (breaking out). So it was far more about driving skill of having consistent 1/4 mile ETs than performance. Of course, we all wanted fast cars then and, well, some of us just never grow up.


  8. #38
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radio-active View Post
    … getting the largest portion of the spark front facing the injector -- but has anyone ever seen a demonstrable effect from indexing plugs?

    … isn't the fuel mixture pretty well dispersed, compressed, "homogenized" in the cylinder by the time the plug fires?

    Now in the MSX 140 head design it may make more sense than in other engines. The plug comes into the head at a fairly severe angle, I guess the electrode could "shadow" the spark front to some significant extent.



    Spark plug torque spec is 18ft lbs. 30 seems pretty high...
    http://polarispwcknowledge.shorturl....jected-engines

    Some of the early year Ficht documentation described how Ficht works. Search for the words Ficht and Stratified.

    A running Ficht engine works in two different modes. Once started, it idles in Stratified Charge mode, whereby the compact fuel plume from the Ficht injector is shot into the combustion chamber a tiny fraction of a second prior to the spark plug fitting. As the atomized (but still quite compact) fuel plume reaches the plug tip the spark plug fires. Not just once, the Ficht EMM fires multiple spark strikes in very rapid succession #. This ignites and reignites the dense fuel mist within the larger air volume of the combustion chamber.

    The overall fuel to air ratio during stratified charge combustion is much greater than stoichiometric. Recall that the throttle plates in the Ficht throttle body have large holes through the plates, so there is plenty of air flow into the engine. The result is efficient and complete fuel burn. As you squeeze the throttle the Ficht engine continues using the stratified charge method up to around 5500 RPM*.

    Above 5500RPM the EMM switches to a homogenous combustion strategy. The fuel injector timing is now activated well before the spark event. The unignited fuel plume zooms past the spark plug tip and swirl mixes with the trapped air, mixing the atomized fuel into the air. The spark plug then fires at the correct ‘advance’ angle as the piston rises and the combustion event happens much as it would in a carburetor version. My recollection is that the Ficht spark is single strike during homogenized combustion operation.

    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthre...=1#post2277509

    The fuel economy of a Ficht engine varies with RPM. Keep it running in the mid-range with efficient stratified charge combustion mode to extend your cruise range. You may notice you get noticeably more fuel tank range at 4500-5000RPM than you do at 5500-6000+ RPM.

    Regarding indexing of the spark plugs in a Ficht engine. I did experiment with that in the first year or two I was learning about Ficht. Spark plug indexing is an old-school hot rod thing, and you can still purchase indexing washer kits. These are copper washers of several thicknesses. You mark the spark plug outside to show where the ground electrode is and then select the washer thickness that will result in the plug electrode facing in the desired orientation when the spark plug is torqued to the correct tightness. I found there was a barely detectable difference when indexed vs. whatever random angle the plugs naturally seated at. I stopped bothering with indexing.

    For PWC Ficht you generally want the spark plug ground electrode to be horizontal, angled to one side or the other. This exposes the spark to the stratified fuel plume vector coming from the Ficht fuel injector from above and to the homogenous combustion air volume between the plug tip and the piston dome.


    * Some of this info was derived from Kawasaki Ficht documents rather than Polaris. Kawasaki Ficht is very similar to Polaris.
    OMC also created a bunch of Ficht documentation, since OMC also did the first Ficht RAM outboard engines and worked with Polaris to create the PWC Ficht versions.


    # This is why the spark plug compatibility is so critical. The Ficht multi-strike sequence is so intense and rapid that an incorrect spark plug can react electrically and mess with the Ficht EMM ignition system. Hence incorrect spark plugs can make the Ficht engine run quite poorly during stratified charge mode.


    Note: During Ficht engine start the ignition runs in a special mode while cranking that is single strike spark and ‘sort of’ homogenized mixture combustion. The Ficht injectors are operating with the bare minimum voltage to inject fuel, with the five Ficht stator AC coil outputs fully stacked by the EMM. As soon as the cranking engine begins running and rises towards idle RPM the EMM switches to the ‘engine running’ configuration and begins stratified charge operation.

    The EMM also changes how it manages AC power from the Ficht stator as RPM rises. Above about 2500RPM the EMM switches the three main stator coils from series to parallel output configuration.

    Ficht OUTBOARD engine operation description


    Some interesting info buried in this document, including oil injection efficiently (since there is no fuel to dilute the oil inside the crankcase) and the outboards using a 200:1 oil ratio for the injected fuel. Early OMC Ficht outboards did struggle with injector fouling during extended low RPM operation, something Ficht PWC engines tend not to do as much.
    http://www.oocities.org/yosemite/rapids/2200/ficht.html

    BTW, these older online documents are the sort of thing that someday may just vanish. Whoever is paying for hosting this stuff on a server may simply stop paying, or go out of business, or the host server may go offline, never to return.
    https://www.oocities.org/yosemite/ra...00/ficht2.html

  9. #39
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    http://www.provenion.eu/65-1-FFI.html



    Note the example timeline across the bottom. Fuel injection event completes in about 2 milliseconds.

    At 5500RPM the engine does a complete crank rotation in under 12 milliseconds. So the compression and power stroke would be circa 6 milliseconds. Below this RPM range the Ficht injection has enough time to properly execute the stratified charge method.

  10. #40
    radio-active's Avatar
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    Very nice explanation. Remarkably sophisticated for the era. It's interesting that things haven't changed all that much in 20+ years, the Indian Scout calibration does something very similar in terms of multispark and timing, fuel delivery, etc, during cranking and starting. It's the only one I've really had any detailed experience with. The whole calibration is much more complex of course, mostly due to emissions regulations being that much more stringent.

    I think those old documents are probably safe for as long as we will need them, the web archives like the Wayback machine and others seem to be secure. But yes, no guarantees.

    There might be one or two guys left here at Polaris who could recall this stuff from the watercraft days. Most of them have moved on now, or are long since retired, as I will be in several months. It's been a fun seven years but my financial guy gave me the thumbs up to hang it up a bit early. I will miss my Indian Chieftain, and all the other toys I've been lucky enough to play with. Slingshot was probably the most entertaining. Or maybe RZR... or FTR....

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