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  1. #21
    Okay, now a bit confused on what this means. I tested the plugs per instructions above. The plugs are firing. Can physically see that. So at a loss on why I didn't get a fire with some gas in the cylinder.

    Also posting the status off the Candoo. It's shows the status of the relays and motor. Only one that looked odd is the oil pressure switch is ON.

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  2. #22
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Elephant Butte New Mexico

    TR-1 not starting

    That’s expected when the engine isn’t running since there is no oil pressure

    The engine timing is off

    the trigger system (not familiar with the exact mechanics of it) is way off which is why I had you look at the timing chain

    In other applications it would be expected that the flywheel key sheared off and the timing has the spark firing when the engine is at the bottom of the exhaust stroke

    I don’t have a tr1 service manual for more direct advice

    So next up us to check the cam sensor and ignition trigger

    You did use fresh plugs for the fuel drop test correct?
    It’s been noted at a plug can be snuffed by a high compression motor yet fire normally in atmosphere

    If not repeat with brand new plugs before you move on
    Last edited by K447; 08-22-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  3. #23
    I had new plugs for the test. One thing I didn't check was gap. I'll measure that out and if out of spec run it again. I'll need to research the cam sensor and ignition trigger. On the can sensor, most likely easier to purchase a new one.

    I'm starting to think timing as well, can't get the motor noise out of my head. That and the low oil, "something" happened.

    So the million dollar question is I'm basically looking at needing to take the entire motor down? Or at least to a point that major components can be checked? And I'm guessing thats at least being able to flip the motor and get the crank case off?

  4. #24
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    Next step is to obtain the service manual and Check the resistance of the cam sensor and the crankshaft position sensor

    Homework: (this will avoid an unrequited engine removal)

    Become aware as to the relationship and function of the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor

    Determine the service procedure for checking ignition timing

    Clearly the spark is triggered at the wrong time

    The assumption is the flywheel key but again Iím not familiar with the tr1 ignition as it having had to repair one I have not obtained a service manual for it

    To save yourself large expenses you need one right now

    Iíll sniff a little to see what I can find that may shine a light on your issue

  5. #25
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    After a revisit of this thread from the top you want to have a look at the ignition coil setup and the wiring between the stator housing and the cdi

    The 4 cylinder Yamahas use a pair of trigger coils the tr1 will either use three or one

    We need a manual

    Hereís the 4 cylinder diagram see if you can find the connector near the stator

    Normally Iíd suggest switching the plug leads around but backfires damage plastic resonators so that must be avoided. No guessing allowed here we know the timing is way off, now to figure out why

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  6. #26
    I do have a manual. There are indeed 3 ignition coils in play here. Also attaching the relevant sheets to go through the testing. Will do this verbatim and report back. Will need to purchase or make a test harness.

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  8. #27
    I have some updates. Still waiting on the Yamaha pins to make the test harness. Actually could not find the test harness thats listed in the manual. But they do show a part number for the pins, so have those coming.

    My update is that I don't think it's fuel. Bagged the injectors, got very good flow. A bit too good of flow since after a few good puffs one of the yellow caps came off. Still airing out the garage. Did have a fire extinguisher on standby. For 100% confirmation, also have a fuel pressure gauge coming.

    A couple days ago, I also tried putting starting fluid down intake, no fire. So I think I'm solidly in time issues. But waiting on the parts to complete the electrical tests. I did talk with the guy/company that sold me the motor. He is pretty stumped as well. Talked through spark and fuel, he does have a lot of experience with the TR-1. And can't wrap his head around the timing piece, especially with the high compression. And the fact that is is not coding.... If I dropped a sensor it should code correct?

    But once I get the remainder of the parts will finish out the electrical tests. Almost nothing in the manual discusses timing issues.

    Anyway, thats what I have to date, I'll get a harness made up and get through the remainder of the electrical checks/tests

    As just an odd question, this motor is in a boat, and is not an issue in terms of access. Looking at the manual, If I pulled intake and exhaust manifolds I should get a peak at rods? If I was to flip it and pull crank case cover it seems I could at least get a visual inspection of crank? Just prepping myself I guess, for cracking this open, to date I have multiple inquiries around town, nobody seems to service these locally...but still looking
    Last edited by AKShooter; 08-27-2021 at 01:09 AM.

  9. #28
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    Iím starting to wonder if this might be a fault in the ECU that hadnít appeared too often yet

    Weíre running out of cards to play here

    Donít use ether, unless itís below zero and you are trying to start a bulldozer

    Pulling any sensor wire should result in an error code

    When you did the spark test did the plugs fire in a sequence or all at once?

    Iím really giving the ECU the side eye since you confirmed the injectors too

    I know that no yamaha dealer will look at your setup either

  10. #29
    I took a video of the plugs firing, going back to that they are firing in a sequence, they are not firing all at one.

    I'm going to pull the slant detector and/or the air temp indicator. See if that forces a code. I did speak to the guy I bought the motor from. He said the codes I posted was from the re-flash. So in the few engine alarms I had, no codes were actually thrown, which seems a bit odd to me.

    At this point, it would appear I have something major at play. Either mechanical or electrical. Or I am out of my depth and missing something very simple. I don't think I am, but of course possible.

    I emailed Candoo about their reader and the ECU, it's obviously reading the ECU, but wondering if there is a path with their software to confirm it is functioning correctly. Because the ECU certainly thinks that everything is operating correctly since no codes are being thrown? But confirming ECM function seems like the next logical path?

    Past that, believe it's mechanical. Back to the noise I heard upon shutdown. I've been through the manual a few times. If I was to make a flat guess on where I heard it, it was something near the rear coupler. But lets say it's mechanical, it would need to affect timing. And I'm not seeing what would need to break to make that happen. The crank is turning when its trying to start. Can also check the flywheel, since that has been mentioned. Appreciate your support. Somethings wrong, and I'd post the culprit once they are known!
    Last edited by AKShooter; 08-27-2021 at 03:35 PM.

  11. #30
    Well, one somewhat odd thing to note. When the motor sets for a bit, I'm assuming I'm getting maybe some fuel evaporation, or vapor. When I first crank it I believe I get a single pulse of combustion, but getting a spray of fuel or exhaust that comes up from the back of the motor. Its a fleeting and single visual so never have been able to determine what it's all about. But when it was running, never had this happen.

    But in any case, it's looking like I have the two roads in front of me, first step is to find someone I can ship my ECU to give it a clean bill of health or the opposite. If I pull a sensor it does indeed code, or alarm. I did pull the cam sensor and the slant detection. The cam sensor did not code, only the slant.

    Next piece is starting to take the motor down, I'm still not sure what can be damaged internally that would screw the timing up so bad that it wont fire. But it's something if it's mechanical...

    Still plan of performing the last couple electrical checks discussed above, still just waiting on the pins to make a harness, then have a couple hunts planned for September, so it might be the first of October before I really get after it.
    Last edited by AKShooter; 08-30-2021 at 03:24 PM.

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