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  1. #1

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    Just a couple questions before Hurricane Gen 3 upgrade

    I just got the Gen 3 upgrade kit from SBT for my 97 Hurricane. I've built a couple old American engines, but no experience with 2 stroke/electronic ignitions so I'm just wanting to be sure I'm on the right track before I begin.

    I'm mainly just concerned with the stator and ignition timing. Is there any clocking or indexing of the stator that I need to be concerned with as I change things, or is checking the timing afterwards just making sure that the new parts/cdi were right, and that nothing was changed that shouldn't have been so you don't blow it up?

    Has anyone posted any walkthroughs of this?

    The gameplan in my head for just the stator is

    1 remove housing/clean mating surfaces
    2 install and fight with flywheel puller, cuss , wait, tighten puller, cuss some more, repeat until it pops off
    3 Remove old stator
    4 install new stator, blue loctite on bolts torque to spec
    5 degrease crank and flywheel deburr if necessary, (probably clean with scotchbrite pads?)
    6 spot of red loctite under woodruff key
    7 red loctite on crankshaft where it engages flywheel (I assume I'll just smear it over the entire engagement area?)
    8 crank bolt blue loctite and torque to spec
    9 install flywheel housing and gasket (do I use any sealant here? Which/both surfaces?) torque to spec (blue loctite bolts?)
    10 reconnect wiring
    11startup and check that timing is 0 at idle and advances to 18 degrees at 3000rpm's

    TIA for any corrections assurances, or gotchas to look out for

    Steve


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Do you know whether the CDI you purchased is configured for High Start or regular ignition base timing?

    The difference is described via this link, along with lots of other useful info.
    Look in the red carb engine ignition section.
    http://polarispwcknowledge.shorturl....t-things-to-do

    Polaris used High Start flywheels in a few later model engines. These have ten degrees advanced base timing. To compensate, the CDI with High Start timing have ten degrees additional timing retard. Combined together the actual running timing at the spark plug is the same.

    If you mismatch regular and High Start CDI/flywheel then the running timing might be ten degrees too far advanced or retarded. The timing adjustment slots on the flywheel are almost ten degrees long. If needed, the slots can be elongated with a file and then the timing ring rotated enough to get the correct running timing.

    When removing the flywheel with the puller, keep the big nut in place, just loosened a few turns. This prevents the flywheel from launching into orbit when it lets go.

    You might want to clean up and highlight the timing marks on the flywheel rim before installation. White paint rubbed into the groves/markings, or similar. Just makes it easier to see them when viewing though the small hole in the flywheel cover.

  3. #3

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    Thanks k447,

    My new cdi is p/n 4010803, which I believe is HST based on this:

    The CDI SBT stocks for the 2 cyl is the 4010803 last model made, based off the 4010448, this is set for the HST timing. (can be used on all 2cyl models but we recommend checking flywheel timing and adjusting as needed). http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=417315

    Assuming my flywheel is stock, I guess that means I need to install it with the flywheel aligned 10 degrees to the port side (probably the limit to that side, or maybe filed for more), ie clockwise 10 degrees as viewed from the front of the ski?

    take it apart and re-index the flywheel if I'm not at 0 degrees at idle? Then check for 18 degrees at 3k rpm's?

    The timing ring was I guess what I was concerned about, I don't even know what it is, I've never been inside a ski engine, is it just the marked degree ring on the flywheel (marked like a balancer on a car) , or is this a separate part?

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
    ... The timing ring ... don't even know what it is ...
    Read the linked material, it will answer a lot of questions.

    The timing ring is a small plastic part that bolts to the inside center of the flywheel. Embedded into the plastic rim is a tiny magnet that triggers each Hall Effect sensor as it passes. The bolts that hold the timing ring go through two curved slots machined into the flywheel face. Timing is adjusted by loosening the two bolts and rotating the timing ring relative to the flywheel. The bolts slide along the curved slots, then retighten at the new timing position.

    Base ignition timing can be checked using an ohmmeter and 9 volt battery. Refer to the Hall Effect sensor testing thread for details.

    An important point is that the actual flywheel is indexed by the woodruff key way slot on the crank snout and flywheel angle remains locked to the shaft. High Start and regular start are the same in this regard.

    All timing is relative to the position of the front (aka MAG) piston, so zero degrees is when the front piston is at Top Dead Center.

    Note: One the two cylinder red engine with Gen III ignition, both spark plugs fire together. Every time either cylinder needs to fire. This is known as wasted spark ignition.

    The ignition coil is double ended, so both spark plugs must be connected and grounded to the engine in order for either plug to fire properly. With wasted spark it does not matter which ignition wore goes to which spark plug.

    Be sure to install the correct NGK spark plugs.

  5. #5

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    Thanks again, I've been studying the hell out of all the links, and without going hands on it's just becoming a blur, probably be a lot clearer once I actually have the ski apart in front of me, just trying to make sure I know enough that I'm not just going to do more damage when I take it apart.

    The one thing I'm still not confident about is where I want to set the timing initially, so I have the best chance at not having to take it apart again.

    Does this all sound correct?
    Engine spins toward the port side,
    I have an original 1997 flywheel and
    new cdi is HST retarded 10 degrees so I assume I want to move the magnets (timing ring) 10 degrees towards the port side (advanced) (which will likely be its full travel)

  6. #6
    casey67's Avatar
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    Yes, it seems you do have a pretty good understanding so far.
    Correct that the timing ring will be turned clockwise as viewed from the front.

    The high start i've seen and were reported here, will place ring at the end of available travel.

    2 stroke is different then car engine timing. You will not see 0deg on start up/idle.
    Idle out of water will be around 2400-2600.

  7. #7

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    Thanks Casey,

    So far so good, just 100 trips to the hardware store to get the right flywheel puller bolts in lengths that would fit, but after that flywheel popped off much easier than I expected. Stator is loose, hopefully after lunch I have the energy to rewire and reassemble, but realistically probably tomorrow.

    One question guys, the flywheel cover did not have any sealant on it, should I seal both sides of the gasket when I reinstall, or is that just adding an unnecessary hassle (if) next time it has to come apart.

  8. #8
    casey67's Avatar
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    The factory Polaris gasket had a bead of some sort of sealer already on the gasket, the stuff really made the gasket stick to both surfaces. Pretty much impossible to reuse the gasket.

    All depends on the gasket you have to use. But a really thin film of RTV won't hurt. Having the cover water tight is the aim.

    I had a 2 cyl engine have trouble cranking with no gasket-just silicone. The starter drive was too tight, needed the gasket.

  9. #9

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    Cool I'll throw some on there, just hate cleaning that stuff up if it's not necessary.

  10. #10

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    Ran into a snag, both of the "nuts" on the timing ring stripped out and would not come loose. I had to cut the heads off. Then I was really puzzled, how does this plastic ring control timing?

    I came to the conclusion it must be the position of the nuts and bolts themselves that controls the timing and the ring just positions them 180 degrees from one another.

    My questions are. Is there something special about the nuts that causes the firing event, or is it just the proximity of a ferrous metal to the stator on each rotation?

    If I'm correct and it's the nuts that control things I think I have bolts that will replace them perfectly, but I have 2 non-ferrous stainless, and 2 steel ferrous bolts that I think match the thread and are the proper length, should I use ferrous or non ferrous?

    Also, If i cant get the nuts off with pliers in a vice I fear heating them with a torch will harm their function if there is a special magnetism to them, do you think I'm ok to heat them up to break them loose?

    Edit: Disregard the question about heating them up, I got them loose, and the bolt ends were ferrous. Unfortunately the bolts I bought will thread in but are extremely loose in the nuts, so I'm off to attempt to find a better fit. If worst comes to worst though I think I could tighten them down with red loctite and they would stay...

    edit again, crisis averted I think, unless those were magic bolts I found replacements.
    Last edited by Ragnar; 03-29-2021 at 05:00 PM.

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