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  1. #1

    (Yet) another oil thread

    Hi guys,

    I read a lot during these past few days about maintenance. I have an Ultra 300x 2013 and will be riding in salt water almost exclusively.

    I am confused about the reason people are recommending motorcycle oil in here? I am not entirely convinced this is the right way to do. Some reasons:

    - Motorcycles do not stay at their peak RPM for as long as skis do. The anti-foaming additives are even MORE important for the oil that goes into skis.
    - Motorcycles are not under the same load as skis are (skis do not cruise with unloaded engine).
    - There is no clutch in these skis - motorcycle oil contains additives to help out with wet clutches
    - There are no anti-corrosion additives in motorcycle oils.

    For reasons mentioned above I would not use motorcycle oil in the skis. This will probably upset a lots of forum members but please try to come back with a constructive reason why it should be fine beside "My Ski is running fine".

    ---

    I basically found two oils so far that should be OK:

    Motul POWERJET 4T 10W-40 - https://www.motul.com/en/en/products/powerjet-4t-10w40
    AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Marine Engine Oil - https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-10w-...ngine-oil-wcf/

    However I am from Europe and we don't get AMSOIL here.

    Note that both Motul and Amsoil are rated the same (API SM, JASO MA). Motul does have only SJ on the bottles but on their technical sheet it on the website it mentions both SJ and SM API approvals. This is very common for oil manufacturers to get pre-approved for higher standard due to their oil already passing all tests.

    AMSOIL raves about their oil being synthetic, Motul also states this but mentions Technosyntheseģ (which is their special hydrocrackning process it seems). You guys should know that there is a law in Germany that prohibits marking oils fully synthetic if they are derived from group 3 oils. Here is a quote from BIZOL:

    As the name implies, synthetic oil is made with products that are chemically manufactured. These products, primarily polyalphaolefins (PAO) and esters, possess many of the same qualities as crude oil but without its disadvantages. The chemical processes permit tight control of the molecular structure of PAOs and esters, ensuring the final oils have uniform and stable properties.
    However, some synthetic oils are made from highly refined crude oil. A process known as severe hydrocracking breaks the long chain hydrocarbons into shorter, more uniform molecules and at the same time reduces the level of impurities in the oil. The oil produced, known as API Group III oil, has almost identical properties to synthetic PAO oil and in the U.S. is regarded as synthetic. In Germany, it is often referred to as HC synthesis oil.
    Synthetic oil is an effective substitute for normal refined lubrication oil and has superior lubricating properties, is longer lasting, and is a better choice for modern engines.
    Due to stricter regulations I almost exclusively buy my oils from Germany. I noticed that exact same oils is packaged totally differently in Germany and other countries because of this law.

    I also got some weird feeling that Kawasaki OEM oil (could not find any specs on it) is re-branded Motul.

    Do you guys know of any other marine oil that is good? Right now I am leaning towards Motul Powerjet 10W-40.

    Thanks!


  2. #2
    Small updates. Some information that basically confirms what I wrote: http://www.kawiperformance.com/engin...ongevity-.html

    Weird thing on that website is that they recommend Valvoline VR1 which is basically racing oil and should be excellent under high revs and probably has anti-foaming additives. However It has no anti-corrosion additives so I would not really use this in the marine engines.

    I still think marine specific oils should be best.

    Also found a couple of more candidates:
    https://lucasoil.com/products/marine...ard-engine-oil
    https://products.liqui-moly.com/mari...imo_b2b_com_en (but this one mentions Volvo penta engines a lot which makes me nervous )

  3. #3
    dcuhpw's Avatar
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    I guess Iíll be the first to ask, what are you trying to accomplish? I ride only salt also but have never seen internal corrosion on a properly stored and fogged engine. Are you after performance, longevity, something else? The built in windage tray and large oil capacity of these engines makes foaming a non-issue even with the cheapest conventional oils. Only worth while consideration is oil weight, film strength and additives for cam wear.

  4. #4
    Well I did ask for constructive answers only.

    I am after acomplishing what every member of this forum is trying to acomplish. In this case: Use the best oil for our engines based on facts, science and common sense.

    Have you opened up your engine? How did you inspect for corrosion?

    I am in dialogue with Liqui Moly. They recommended their street racing T4 oil for motorcycles 10w-50 for ultra 300x. Reason being the JOSO MA requirement which does not make any sense.

    Are our skis having wet clutch or not? Why is this requirement there? It is exclusively connected to same oil being used in engine + clutch/gearbox.

    I will post answers from Liqui Moly as soon as I have some conclusions.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Hurricane1000's Avatar
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    Riva Racing recommends Valvoline VR1 racing oil due to its additional additive of zinc.

    They told me it is excellent oil for the camshafts and buckets set up.....

    I use it in my 2017 GP1800 stage 3.

  7. #7
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Any motor I have opened has been damn near spotless inside, even neglected ones. Unless you sink the ski, crack a head, or pop an oil cooler you aren't really going to get water in the cases. The areas that you don't have engine oil near are the ones that go bad. Throttle bodies, idle motors, valve stems, etc.

    Sean

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  9. #8
    steve45's Avatar
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    Just order some Klotz and be done with it.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane1000 View Post
    Riva Racing recommends Valvoline VR1 racing oil due to its additional additive of zinc.

    They told me it is excellent oil for the camshafts and buckets set up.....

    I use it in my 2017 GP1800 stage 3.
    I used Valvoline Synpower range before in my heavily tuned cars. You can't really go wrong with VR1. It's oil used by my neighbors as well (Koenigsegg) and that should tell you something. However there is no JASO MA rating for that oil but again I questioned that requirement in my previous post since it doesn't make lots of sense here. Maybe we should contact Kawasaki directly? As usual, it doesn't "officially" contain anti-corrosion additives but high level of zinc will sure help out with this. I think sorting out this fact is important. (ref: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/mar...ed-for-marine/)

    Another excellent article on general oil properties: http://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-c...inhibitors/175

    @smokeysevin - It is not true that water does not get into the motor. You are running the ski on the water, the intakes are fully exposed to the surrounding moisture and there isn't even a filter there (not like it would really help). If throttle body goes bad due to moisture then you can be sure that same moisture got into the engine. You are assuming that it simply gets spit out in the combustion process but this isn't true. You can read about this in the factual articles posted above.

  11. #10
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orienz View Post
    I used Valvoline Synpower range before in my heavily tuned cars. You can't really go wrong with VR1. It's oil used by my neighbors as well (Koenigsegg) and that should tell you something. However there is no JASO MA rating for that oil but again I questioned that requirement in my previous post since it doesn't make lots of sense here. Maybe we should contact Kawasaki directly? As usual, it doesn't "officially" contain anti-corrosion additives but high level of zinc will sure help out with this. I think sorting out this fact is important. (ref: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/mar...ed-for-marine/)

    Another excellent article on general oil properties: http://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-c...inhibitors/175

    @smokeysevin - It is not true that water does not get into the motor. You are running the ski on the water, the intakes are fully exposed to the surrounding moisture and there isn't even a filter there (not like it would really help). If throttle body goes bad due to moisture then you can be sure that same moisture got into the engine. You are assuming that it simply gets spit out in the combustion process but this isn't true. You can read about this in the factual articles posted above.
    Im not assuming anything. Speaking from experience, even on the neglected motors that I have torn down where the hulls sat with water in them or on the water in floating docks, corrosion inside the motor has not been a problem or even noticeable.

    Sean

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