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  1. #21
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT350 View Post
    .... "AGM" charger. I buy the Battery Tender Junior ...
    Apparently Deltran says that model is AGM compatible.

    https://www.deltran-global.com/compare?items=5548,5570
    Quote Originally Posted by Battery Tender® Junior 12V, 750mA Battery Charger
    Compatible with lead acid, AGM ...

  2. #22
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    Might be a stupid question but for the Junior it says that it will automatically shut off after 80hrs of continuous use. Will it startup again after or do we have to unplug and re plug it in after that ? What good is it if it shuts off. I don’t want to have to go back and forth doing this.

  3. #23
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm37 View Post
    ... for the Junior it says that it will automatically shut off after 80hrs of continuous use. ...
    I find the Deltran provided info to be a combination of specifics and unclear details. Why are the owners manual PDF not provided on the web site?

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/91...er-Junior.html

    SAFETY FIRST
    Battery Tender® battery chargers and maintainers are manufactured with built-in safety features like:
    - Spark proof included connections (ring terminals and alligator clips) will not spark when touched together, the charger will not produce output voltage until it senses at least 3 volts from the battery
    - Reverse polarity protection that ensures the charger will not charge unless the connections are attached to the correct polarity
    - A safety timer that will shut off the charger after 80 hours of continuous use
    Regarding the 80 hours, what I think they are referring to is protection against a charger that never switches to float mode and just stays in ‘bulk charge’ mode forever. A degraded battery (or perhaps an active electrical load connected to the battery circuit) might never allow the voltage to reach the expected voltage rise that the charger uses to switch to float mode. The long duration timer protection function is there to force the charger to shut down if the battery is simply cooking away ‘forever’. *

    Connecting a small charger (such as the Battery Tender Junior) to an already properly charged and healthy battery, the small charger should switch to float mode within a fairly short time period, perhaps a few minutes to a few hours. Well within the 80 hour time limit. Once it has switched to charge maintenance mode it should maintain the float voltage long term. Weeks and months.

    If during the long term storage the AC power goes away and then comes back, the small charger may again go through the phases of checking battery voltage, charging if necessary to ‘top off’ the battery and then back to float mode. The 80 hour protection would be in effect any time the charger is in charge mode, expecting to switch to float mode.

    My BatteryMinder does not forget what mode it was in so when AC power returns it simply resumes in float mode. If the battery actually needs some charge it would of course do that.


    * Really basic/inexpensive small battery chargers might use the timer method alone. They do not sense when to switch modes, they just sit there and ‘charge’ for a fixed amount of time, then the timer triggers and the charger stops. These are the opposite of a smart charger with electronic battery voltage sensing and proper charge mode management.


    Regarding temperature compensation, apparently only some models of Battery Tender include it;

    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic Charging And Battery Status Monitoring; Features - Battery Tender Junior Instruction Manual
    TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION (BT PLUS Only):
    The output voltage is compensated at -3.5mV/ °C/Cell. This increases the output voltage in cold climates to keep the battery from being undercharged and, moreimportantly, reduces the voltage in high temperature climates to protect the battery from overcharge.

  4. #24
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Among the reasons I post about batteries, charging and maintaining is that a battery failure on the water can be dangerous.

    ... a PWC non-start or other electrical failure can strand the rider adrift. In the wrong place or the wrong time or in front of bad weather a stranding can even be life threatening.

    ...
    Moments of this sort is why battery quality, battery maintenance and battery age matters.

    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=290288&p=3105019&viewfull=1#post3 105019


    Quote Originally Posted by rafelos1337 View Post
    ... Today I rode about 60 miles, stopping and turning the ski off. I stopped to talk to someone and turned the ski off. It would not start a few moments later.

    Nothing on the display. I kept hitting the start button but it wouldnt display anything on the screen...

  5. #25
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Correction (system will not let me edit the orginal post)

    At room temperature East-Penn recommends (page 11) charge voltage 13.70 and float 13.4. These are both lower than Odyssey wants.
    Should read;

    At room temperature for their AGM batteries East-Penn recommends (page 11) charge voltage 14.3-14.6 volts and float 13.4-13.7 volts. This is slightly different than what Odyssey wants for their batteries.


    Here is the voltage table for the BatteryMinder AGM specific model charger.
    The AGM specific 2012-AGM model pushes slightly higher 14.7 voltage (and temperature compensated) during charge mode and 13.6 volts during float/maintenance mode.



    The Calcium version of the charger does not match any powersports battery, unless I am missing something.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Bilford View Post
    Currently, when I need to charge the OEM Yuasa on my 2018 RXP, I use the standard mode because the AGM mode exceeds the voltage recommendations of Yuasa for the YTX line. I am not sure if their GYZ line would be charged at the higher voltage.
    Interesting point. I have same year ski with the original battery.
    Also using Ctek charger. I just started using AGM mode when I saw there was an AGM battery installed, when I bought the ski new back then.

    Do you also have sometimes the low battery alarm going of after a short period when waking up the ski in the garage during cleaning/maintenance (so not starting)?
    It start and runs normal during daily use. Voltage is good as well.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVN81 View Post
    Interesting point. I have same year ski with the original battery.
    Also using Ctek charger. I just started using AGM mode when I saw there was an AGM battery installed, when I bought the ski new back then.

    Do you also have sometimes the low battery alarm going of after a short period when waking up the ski in the garage during cleaning/maintenance (so not starting)?
    It start and runs normal during daily use. Voltage is good as well.
    I had never seen the battery icon warning light until my last ride. It happened after I started it quickly on the trailer before leaving for the lake. I checked the battery with a meter and it was 12.6X. Way too low for a ski that was just operated the day before. It appears that the battery is declining in health and will be replaced next season.

    As far as the CTEK, the AGM mode is higher than Yuasa recommends for that battery. That is why I use the standard mode on the YTX. Most OEM batteries only last 2-3 years, so this is totally expected from my experience. At least I now have several months to find a replacement. The design of the sea doo bracket makes fitment a more critical issue than it was when they used a pair of rubber straps.


  8. #28
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Bilford View Post
    ... than Yuasa recommends for that battery. ....
    Link to the Yuasa recommendations for their GYZ and/or YTZ battery (AGM battery) charging specifics?

    I can find (basic) info on the Yuasa chargers but not the specs for charging specific Yuasa AGM batteries.

  9. #29
    I don't believe in trickle chargers, tenders, etc, don't think they are a good idea. I used to work for one of the largest companies that made chargers for things like forklifts and whatnot, things that have very expensive batteries and very expensive battery chargers.

    When you apply a float charge, you can cause damage to the batter long term if the proper voltage is not applied. The proper voltage varies with different chemistries, temperature, etc. I am not aware of any tenders on the market that fit this profile, especially temperature. Keep in mind, it is not the ambient temp that matters, it is the temp of the battery itself.

    In my experience, AGM batteries are not longer lasting than regular batteries, I get more years out of a plain Walmart battery than the East Penn Deka's. They have two advantages for use in PWC : 1. Better resistance to shock (like jumping waves) 2. Lower self-discharge

    Instead of using battery tenders, the better strategy is to disconnect batteries when not in use, and top off the charge with a standard charger every 1-3 months. This provides the longest life on PWC batteries.

  10. #30
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    ... chargers for things like forklifts and whatnot, things that have very expensive batteries and very expensive battery chargers.

    When you apply a float charge, you can cause damage to the batter long term if the proper voltage is not applied. The proper voltage varies with different chemistries, temperature, etc. I am not aware of any tenders on the market that fit this profile, especially temperature. ... the temp of the battery itself.

    In my experience, AGM batteries are not longer lasting ...

    Instead of using battery tenders, the better strategy is to disconnect batteries when not in use, and top off the charge with a standard charger every 1-3 months. ...
    Yes, a given make and model battery has a specific optimal float voltage (narrow voltage range) and that is affected by temperature. The manufacturer provides that info.

    Several models of BatteryMinder have an external temperature sensor, and a longer lead can be used to directly attach the temp sensor to the battery. BatteryMinder does specify what voltage range it will deliver to the battery, and will temperature compensate. Match the charger specifcations to the battery requirements and the float/maintenance mode will not degrade the battery life.

    The widely available Deltran Battery Tender products seem to be less precise about charge voltages and maintenance mode, in terms of matching a given battery. I have and use a Deltran waterproof 800mA charger but some of the other inexpensive Deltran models, meh.

    I do not measure success of my charging regimen by how many total years the battery lasts. I am aiming for maximizing the battery integrity and reliablity during the first few years, when it will be used in my PWC. I remove the AGM battery after a few years, while it is 'still good', and install the 'old' battery in an on-land application. How many more years it lasts might vary depending on what it gets used for next.

    Each of my PWC gets a fresh new AGM battery every few years. This summer I replaced a pair of Deka ETX series AGM during their fourth summer in my two GP1800 SVHO. Both 'old' batteries were still healthy with correct resting voltage and engine starting was just fine. However 'good' they might still be, the pair of brand new Deka AGM batteries are going to be better.

    I use an off-season battery maintainer to hold the battery at the correct float voltage (matched to the manufacturer specs for that battery). I do not need to attend to the battery nor remember to connect the charger during the middle of winter.

    What a 'standard charger' does depends on the charger. There are plenty of (typically inexpensive) battery chargers on the market that do an OK job but are not a match for any specific battery requirements.


    My (basic) understanding of battery powered forklifts is that the batteries operate in a semi-deep discharge application. The forklift runs on the battery until the end of the shift or until the batteries get 'weak' then the thing is parked and recharged. Once recharged it is ready for next use, which will probably happen fairly soon. Holding the forklift batteries at an optimal float voltage may not be needed since they experience frequent discharge and recharge cycles.

    Quite different from an engine start battery type.

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