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  1. #11
    EVN81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pratzert View Post
    Or do I need to disconnect the battery completely, or the positive cable at least?
    Just to add, if you decide to disconnect one cable always disconnect negative first.

    Idea behind this is that when you accidentally touch anything metal around the battery with tool or loose cable it will be same polarity (negative/ground).
    So you will avoid a spark or worse damage to electronics.
    Just good practice.


  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by njallday18 View Post
    The reason the manual says not to charge while installed is due to fuel vapor that could ignite. keep the seat or hatch open and a charger that won't spark, you're good.
    While this is valid reason, it is not the primary reason for the warning. The main reason is because there are literally millions of idiots that don't know that red is positive, black is negative. If you take the battery out and make this dumbass move, you won't damage the ski.

    I have a copy of a TSB from 2007 that talks about this. Up until 2006, Sea Doo skis had MPEMs to direct power, which had some basic polarity reversal protection. In 2007 they did away with the MPEM and had a huge increase in warranty claims for blown ECMs. BRP knew there were loads of idiots out there but had no clue there was that many out there

  3. #13
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    Deltran chargers.. The output alligator clips or ring terminals will not spark when they are touched together. The Battery Tender® charger will not produce an output voltage until it senses at least 3 volts from the battery. It must be connected to a battery with the correct polarity before it will start charging a battery.

  4. #14
    Norm37's Avatar
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    So when storing my ski for winter, I can leave my Battery Tender Jr. always plugged in on the battery still in the ski? It won’t damage battery? It will keep it maintained until next spring?

  5. #15
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm37 View Post
    So when storing my ski for winter, I can leave my Battery Tender Jr. always plugged in on the battery still in the ski?
    It won’t damage battery?
    It will keep it maintained until next spring?
    Yes.

    If the battery is currently healthy and well charged.

    A battery that is near end of life should not be kept in the ski. In fact, it should be removed and never put back in. Buy a new battery in the spring.

    An aged battery can fail during storage, even with a battery maintainer connected.

  6. #16
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    I would disconnect the neg cable if for some reason a charge is needed while the battery is installed. I run AGM batteries and I remove the batteries at the end of the season. I do not leave a charger on the batteries. I monitor them and charge when they drop to 12.65v. Fully charged, they will be 12.84v.

    In regards to chargers, the algorithm needs to match the battery type. An AGM battery must be charged at a higher voltage to be fully charged. Many of the tender types now offer an AGM model. I use a CTEC brand that has an AGM mode as well as a traditional mode.

    Most AGM manufacturers do not recommend using a maintainer or prolonged float charger. It shortens their life. I use Odyssey brand batteries when I can and get over 10 years of use on each of them. Unfortunately, they do not make a series 20 yet for the new 4tec machines. I am told that it is coming.......

  7. #17
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Bilford View Post
    ...
    Most AGM manufacturers do not recommend using a maintainer or prolonged float charger. ...
    I will agree that poor quality and/or non-AGM appropriate chargers will degrade AGM battery life.

    Odyssey has a slightly unusual chemistry, different from the Deka AGM. My understanding is the Odyssey type requires a very specific charge voltage profile and a specific float voltage.

    Adding slightly to the confusion is the difference between battery float applications and float voltage for long term maintenance of battery charge.

    Float life refers to the life expectancy of a battery that is used primarily as a source of backup or emergency power. Emergency lighting, security alarm and Uninterruptible Power Systems (UPS) are good examples of batteries in float applications.
    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/docs/us-ody-tm.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssey Battery Technical Manual – Ninth Edition (Page 16, Step 2 Charger type - automatic or manual)
    ... automatic charger would bring the battery up to 14.7V, then switches to a float (trickle) voltage of 13.6V; it will stay at that level indefinitely. The second type of automatic charger is preferred
    At room temperature East-Penn recommends (page 11) charge voltage 13.70 and float 13.4. These are both lower than Odyssey wants.

    BatteryMinder 128CEC1 instructions have a specific mode for the Odyssey battery
    Use the Odyssey selection on all named Odyssey batteries at the 4 Amp setting.
    Regarding the East-Penn Deka ETX series of AGM batteries, is there a document you could direct me to regarding the recommendation against (correct for the battery and temperature) constant float voltage during long term storage?

    Looking at the BatteryMinder.com web site, I just noticed their AGM only charger.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteryMINDer Model 2012-AGM
    BatteryMINDer® 2012-AGM is a SmarTECHnology™ microprocessor controlled charger/maintainer/desulfator for Optima, Odyssey, Polaris, Yuasa & Other High Performance Specialty 12 Volt Sealed AGM Lead-Acid Batteries.

    Plug 'n Run feature means "no buttons to push." It is designed with 7-stages and is fully automatic. This charger actively monitors your battery's voltage, amperage acceptance and temperature at all times.

    Features easily understood diagnostic LED indicators that display the battery's condition and actual state-of-charge profile. Working through a series of charging and diagnostics stages, the internal program adjusts its output several times a second based on sensor reading to quickly and correctly charge your battery.

    When used as a maintainer, the BatteryMINDer® is guaranteed to maximize your battery's life and storage capacity.

    The temperature compensated long-term maintenance stage will add years of service. Patented full-time high frequency pulse desulfation (NOT high voltage) prevents battery sulfation on new batteries or eliminates in older batteries, the #1 cause of early battery failure. Unit can maintain up to six 12 Volt batteries at one time when connected in parallel by using SmarTechnology™ Y-Connectors 210AY or customer supplied 18-Gauge insulated wire.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #18
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    K,
    Good info. I have used Odysseys since 1999. I have spoken to their tech folks many times and upon their recommendation starting using the CTEC brand of chargers that use the Odyssey voltage guidelines. Odyssey now has their own line of chargers.

    Thank you for providing some info on Deka recommendations. They make most of the private label AGM group 20 batteries out there. If Odyssey does not bring a Group 20 to market by next spring, I most likely will buy a Deka or a Yuasa GYZ. I would go ahead and use the CTEC AGM mode for charging. Currently, when I need to charge the OEM Yuasa on my 2018 RXP, I use the standard mode because the AGM mode exceeds the voltage recommendations of Yuasa for the YTX line. I am not sure if their GYZ line would be charged at the higher voltage.

  9. #19
    I read all this about the AGM batteries gets charged/maintained a certain way vs a plate style battery.
    A stator shunt style regulator on a ski is like doing brain surgery with a claw hammer compared to a modern battery charger/maintainer.
    I don't buy into all the hype about the "AGM" charger. I buy the Battery Tender Junior and let it eat! I have a Miller BobCat welder
    that one stays on. I pull it out once every few mouths and run it for about 30 mins to keep the carb from gumming up. It turns over like new every time.
    $25.00. Problem solved.

    All of my ATV's and motor cycles come with Yuasa batteries. They lasted for 7-8 years. My 2016 15F has a Yuasa in it.
    All my other skis needed batteries so I put AGM batteries in them for the simple fact they had built in nuts. I hate those little squire nuts.
    Buy a name brand maintainer and spend you brain power on more important things.

  10. #20
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT350 View Post
    I read all this about the AGM batteries gets charged/maintained a certain way vs a plate style battery.
    A stator shunt style regulator on a ski is like doing brain surgery with a claw hammer compared to a modern battery charger/maintainer.
    I don't buy into all the hype about the "AGM" charger. I buy the Battery Tender Junior and let it eat!

    I have a Miller BobCat welder that one stays on. I pull it out once every few mouths and run it for about 30 mins to keep the carb from gumming up. It turns over like new every time.
    $25.00. Problem solved.

    All of my ATV's and motor cycles come with Yuasa batteries. They lasted for 7-8 years. My 2016 15F has a Yuasa in it.
    ...
    Buy a name brand maintainer ...
    Among the reasons I post about batteries, charging and maintaining is that a battery failure on the water can be dangerous. Unlike on land where one can get off and walk home a PWC non-start or other electrical failure can strand the rider adrift. In the wrong place or the wrong time or in front of bad weather a stranding can even be life threatening.

    Mis-understandings, honest confusion and simply incorrect battery related information seem to be widespread. Even among people who are familiar with automotive and commercial batteries, sometimes important points regarding PWC batteries are incorrectly applied or just skipped over.

    The charging system on most (all?) PWC is a fairly basic constant voltage regulated system. When the engine is running it tries to deliver enough charge current to bring the battery voltage up to a fixed level. On my own Yamaha GP1800 that seems to be about 14.2 volts, maybe a tad more.

    The PWC charging system is not intended to maintain the battery at a stable float voltage for long periods of time. Typical operation after first engine start of the day is riding for a (short) while, stopping, re-starting, riding and then stopping again, and so on. The battery charge state varies during the day but generally the idea is that the engine charging effect exceeds the battery discharge from the multiple engine starts and however long it was sitting since the last day of use.

    When parked for a while the battery tends to discharge. Self-discharge happens with lead-acid batteries, but battery discharge also happens with parasitic current drain from the on board electronics. The Yamaha remote ‘Security/unlock fob’ radio receiver is always sipping power, waiting for the remote button press. Even if the battery was 100% charged, it will slowly decline over time.

    A good quality battery maintainer (matched to the battery type) will not only overcome the mild power draw of the connected electronics, it will also nudge the battery really close to 100% and then hold it there (float voltage mode). As far as I know that is the optimal long term storage state for all forms of AGM and lead-acid PWC batteries.

    My practice is not to use battery maintainer primarily to extend the battery lifespan for many years, but to maximize the reliability, capacity and starting strength of that battery during the first few years.

    On land it seems normal to keep using an older battery until it just cannot start the engine anymore.

    For PWC use I advocate for removing the battery from service when it is ‘still good’. Installing a brand new AGM battery into the PWC to replace the ‘still good’ older battery that has seen a few seasons is not a waste. Use that old ‘still good’ battery in some land vehicle or other purpose. I use mine in my lawn mower.

    The cost of a new high grade AGM battery is maybe the price of two tanks of fuel. Buying a new one once every several riding seasons isn’t a big expense. The upside is less risk of battery troubles and robust engine starting power.

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