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  1. #1

    2004 MSX 150 Muddy oil

    I just acquired a MSX 150. I read up a lot on this ski before I got it. The ski has 269hrs on it. For a 4 stroke that is 1/2 life? I was told the ski hadn't been run in over 2 years. It also spent its life docked on a lake most of the time in fresh water. It runs and idles smooth. I found that it suffers from the SIFB as well. My main question is that Polaris requires the oil to be changed every 20 hours. The oil is brown muddy. Does this mean water? Normally water is white/frothy and creamy. The coolant is between Max and Min. I have read where this motor will contaminate the oil with gas, thats why it is required to be changed every 20 hours. Can somebody tell me what this means? I am thinking condensation from being on the lake continuously?

    Before I go further, I am draining the oil and flush a couple quarts through it and change the filter.

    Suggestions?
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    Last edited by WaveChaser; 10-13-2020 at 11:06 PM.


  2. #2
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    As long as it's not milky (mixed with water), I wouldn't worry about it. The Weber typically turns the oil dark in only a few hours. Change it with Mobil 1 15W-50.

  3. #3
    Not milky but sludgy. It just looks odd to me. I put 4 liters of clean oil through it before it started looking normal. I am waiting to receive my oil filters before I finish the oil change. I also purchased the Mobil 1 15w50.

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    casey67's Avatar
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    Turbo's spin at really high rpm's, like double triple engine rpm. It's pretty rough on oil.

  5. #5
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaveChaser View Post
    I just acquired a MSX 150. I read up a lot on this ski before I got it. The ski has 269hrs on it. For a 4 stroke that is 1/2 life? I was told the ski hadn't been run in over 2 years. It also spent its life docked on a lake most of the time in fresh water. It runs and idles smooth. I found that it suffers from the SIFB as well. My main question is that Polaris requires the oil to be changed every 20 hours. The oil is brown muddy. Does this mean water? Normally water is white/frothy and creamy. The coolant is between Max and Min. I have read where this motor will contaminate the oil with gas, thats why it is required to be changed every 20 hours. Can somebody tell me what this means? I am thinking condensation from being on the lake continuously?

    Before I go further, I am draining the oil and flush a couple quarts through it and change the filter.

    Suggestions?

    Welcome to the Weber-MSX club!

    The MPE750 Weber engine is dry sump with sorta small oil capacity (~2.5-3 qts per oil change). And being a turbo engine, it's hard on the oil... thus the 20 hr oil change recommendation.

    Being fuel injected... no real issues with fuel in the oil... like could be possible with carb'ed engines. Water/coolant in the oil... that's a possible issue (bad oil tank o-ring seal, bad waterpump shaft seal, etc.)

    With the new-to-you ski... I'd do as you have and change the oil + filter (Mobil 1 15w-50). Be sure you are checking oil levels correctly (best done when up to temp). Overfilling the oil causes a lot of headaches.

    A little condensation seen at the oil tank dip stick cap area when cold is normal. Usually it'll all "burn" off after a good, long run. Milkshake on the dipstick would be bad, of course.

    A bad SIFB module... is most easily replaced by a paperclip (but you'll loose the 3400rpm max limit when in reverse... which I like when starting on the trailer).

    Coolant is pink Propylene Glycol (PG). Between max-min sounds fine. A blown headgasket is pretty easy to spot by an oil slick on the top of the coolant tank... and or low/missing coolant.

    Cheers!

  6. #6
    Here is my take on why the oil was sludgy. First correct me if I am wrong, I read somewhere about this motor is that being turbo and there is blow by on the rings thus contaminating the oil. I don't remember which forum i read that on. I drive turbo diesels with very high compression and they have the same issue putting soot in the oil. That is why it is black ink in color. In a diesel, you can actually start gaining oil because of this soot contamination.

    Second, my experience so far reading how to change the oil is confusing and to an inexperienced shop or user just sucking out the oil in the tank still leaves 2 quarts of old oil in the engine. Add to the fact if your hose curls in the bottom of the tank you won't get it dry. It might be sumpless but I kept getting oil out over 3 quarts with the cranking method. One quart sucking the tank out and 2 plus cranking the motor. If the person doing it is lazy, they will say good enough and maybe change the filter which is kinda a pain to get to as well. I watched a youtube video of a guy changing his oil on a MSX 150 and when he pumped it out with only 5 hours on it, it looked as bad as mine. He then removed the hose and pumped it all the way out but didn't show that part.


    After running over 4 liters of new oil through the engine, I finally got clean oil out. I then check the filter to see what shape it was in. I don't believe I have any water because I am sure the filter would look like marshmallow fluff depending on how much water was in it. I once saw a John Deere tractor with a pinhole in a sleeve. I don't remember the amount of time running but the oil and dipstick looked like marshmallow fluff. I just checked the coolant cap and it is clean with pink antifreeze.

    I put the old filter back in, new oil and started it for 30 secs and the level is fine. When I get my new filters, I will drain the oil and start over but changing the filter this time. I am curious since I know I have flushed the oil out what it will look like after it is ran for several hours skiing. So to add with what was said about low capacity oil plus beat by a turbo, I want to make sure I have ALL new oil in this ski.

    I want to change the coolant next. Is it just the pink Zerex G-05 that I use in my trucks? It is for Cummins and Mercedes?

  7. #7

    SIFB

    Has anybody successfully fixed a dead SIFB? I read on PWC Forum where a guy said he just fixed his but didn't give details. It looks like a circuit board attached to a 8 pin Delphi connector submerged in a 1/2 inch of expoxy. Mine actually has a 100uF 16v can capacitor poking through the epoxy. This would be like digging ancient ruins so you didn't damage the circuit board with a Dremel. On mine anyway, the epoxy doesn't seem too hard as I started scrapping away with a screw driver.

    Does the SIFB just die in separate functions? It seems in mine the guy who sold me it says it would not rev past 3500rpm. He said when I went to look at it now it won't shut off with the stop button or lanyard. However, the 3500 neutral/reverse limit works because it act different from forward to neutral/reverse. The 2 min timeout works because the ski goes to sleep in that time of inactivity.

    I never leave the lanyard in any of my skis so that function I don't care about. I am careful enough not to gun it while in reverse, however, I would like to be able to put it in neutral when trailer testing on the hose so it doesn't over rev. I was thinking of designing a circuit with a 555 timer and a couple gates. I could give all 3 functions back. I would need to think about how to disable the 2 min auto shutoff for DW.
    Last edited by WaveChaser; 10-14-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  8. #8
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaveChaser View Post
    Here is my take on why the oil was sludgy. First correct me if I am wrong, I read somewhere about this motor is that being turbo and there is blow by on the rings thus contaminating the oil. I don't remember which forum i read that on. I drive turbo diesels with very high compression and they have the same issue putting soot in the oil. That is why it is black ink in color. In a diesel, you can actually start gaining oil because of this soot contamination.
    Fuel contamination has been mentioned by Desperado, creator of the Precision Tune (a must have, IMHO). I don't ever recall anyone sending out their oil to be tested though.


    Quote Originally Posted by WaveChaser View Post
    I want to change the coolant next. Is it just the pink Zerex G-05 that I use in my trucks? It is for Cummins and Mercedes?
    Please don't use Ethylene Glycol based coolant, as it is toxic. Propylene Glycol is what you need. "Banfrost Marine 2000" is strongly suspected as being the OEM coolant (I bought some).

  9. #9
    lau-de's Avatar
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    I drive turbo diesels with very high compression and they have the same issue putting soot in the oil.
    it's due to regeneration function of diesel particulate filter through late fuel injection
    diesel engines without DPF have no issues with oil contamination

  10. #10
    casey67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaveChaser View Post

    how to change the oil is confusing
    If the person doing it is lazy,
    youtube video
    Exactly. You never really know the entire procedure unless you do it yourself or have a really good technician that refuses to do things wrong/halfway.

    I agree, starting with truely clean oil on a new to you machine is good.

    My entire theory on oil is to NOT use it till it stops functioning. That way some residue oil in engine doesnt matter, doesnt cause harm.
    I believe oil at recommended interval is still functioning. One of an oil's jobs is to clean, IF it is cleaning the engine,the oil will become dirty-not defective.

    My 80 year old Father bought a new Chevy Trax, 1.3L with turbo, that is rarely driven over 1/4 throttle. The oil gets dirty quickly, even with required GM semi-synthetic and early oil changes. Better with full synthetic, the Turbo just grinds up oil.

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