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  1. #61

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    if polaris ever got back in i would almost bet they would have a 2 stroke and 4 stroke as they are heavily investing in 2 stroke technology for there sleds

  2. #62

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    i may need to bring fuel but i can take my 2 stroke ski anywhere you go
    How many hrs on your gp now it's 3 yrs old should have around 200+ to justify your theory i may not run 80 but i will run 70 with you all day and there aren't many times you run 80 for long as i can cruise at 70 comfortable in most any water conditions

  3. #63
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentzel View Post
    ... Why would anyone drop $9k on a new and 10 mph slower ski.

    More complicated, more expensive AND slower?
    More reliable, higher resale value, dealer and manufacturer supported.
    Third party service from many shops.
    Modern features - electronic neutral and reverse, braking, learner mode.
    Instant, consistent engine starting hot or cold.

    Zero maintenance during the riding season. Pick it up from the dealer at beginning of summer already serviced, put gasoline in it all summer. No oil to buy and top up or even think about. It gets returned to dealer in the fall. They change the oil and put it away. Winterization isn’t much more than stabilizing the fuel.

    Even if owner is doing their own maintenance the 4-stroke machine is just less work and less worry.

    The reliability aspect can be dominant in purchasing decisions. Buyers will pay A LOT to avoid something they perceive as less reliable, or even potentially less reliable.

  4. #64
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 785 lugs View Post
    ... I can take my 2 stroke ski anywhere you go
    How many hrs on your gp now it's 3 yrs old ...

    ... i will run 70 with you all day ... cruise at 70 comfortable in most any water conditions
    We had an MSX 140 for ten years. Rode several of the Matrix versions too. Very familiar with how that hull rides in various water conditions. It was the most modern hull Polaris ever made.

    Hull designs have improved since then. Better ride in rough, better tracking in turns. More control.

    A typical day on the water for us we will travel 60+ miles without refueling. Some days we go a lot farther.

    I generally don’t carry extra fuel unless we are venturing fairly deep into unpopulated waters or plan to refuel without using a marina.

    Each of our GP1800 can carry one, two or even three 5US gallon fuel cans. That effectively doubles our usable cruise range.

    Typical cruise speeds 45-65mph, with some 75mph rips for fun. When the water gets choppy our GP1800 tends to ride smoother if we cruise above 50mph.


    Each of our GP1800 SVHO is approaching 300 hours. We have had them for four summers so far.

    If I still had the Polaris 2-strokes I would have probably had to do engine rebuilds on both at least once, maybe twice in that 300 hours. And be expecting yet another rebuild sometime in the next year or so.

    I rebuilt those 1200 engines myself several times, and sometimes I just bought a ready to run rebuild. A couple of SBT rebuilt engines would have cost me $3400 US over the last four years, times two machines. Plus the downtime doing four engine swaps. $3400 is almost 1/4 the purchase price of a new GP1800 SVHO.


    I suppose I never thought of the Polaris Matrix as a distance touring machine. How far does it actually go on a tank of fuel at 60+ mph?

    One thing I did like about the last generation of Polaris 3 seater PWC is that the fuel tank capacities were fairly large. With our Ficht 1200 engines that translated into cruise ranges that often bested the 4-stroke supercharged Seadoo’s we rode with.


    Reliability and risk of sudden failure when traveling distance, and especially when far away from shore and service/repair options are slim to none, is something that I was always aware of when we rode 2-strokes. I have forgotten how often we had to tow one of our Polaris back using the other. Some of those events I posted about here. Others I just towed it back, fixed whatever needed fixing, and carried on.

    Even when nothing bad happened on a ride, the very real possibility that mechanical failure could happen, perhaps without warning, was always present. Which is why I always carried a lot of self-rescue gear. Tow ropes, of course. But also tools and other stuff that may be needed if a machine becomes stranded.

    Each of those tow backs and subsequent repairs represents riding time that was lost.
    Plenty of additional time went to maintaining those 2-stroke Polaris. Some was Ficht related, some was just typical old-school PWC stuff.

    Other than oil changes, I really don’t spend much time maintaining our Yamahas. Despite them being supercharged and tuned, there just isn’t a lot that needs doing.

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  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGPR View Post
    I understand your point but the 951 is an exploding turd...
    Yamaha really needs to fix the turd svho supercharger clutches. At least it will still go 50 mph with blown clutch so that is good.

    But then you get passed by the turd 951 ski from 2002 that goes 62mph.. Its sucks getting passed by a turd! Especially when sitting on a ski costing more than $15k. Oh yeah we’ll get that on order.. says yamaha dealer.


  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    More reliable, higher resale value, dealer and manufacturer supported.
    Third party service from many shops.
    Modern features - electronic neutral and reverse, braking, learner mode.
    Instant, consistent engine starting hot or cold.

    Zero maintenance during the riding season. Pick it up from the dealer at beginning of summer already serviced, put gasoline in it all summer. No oil to buy and top up or even think about. It gets returned to dealer in the fall. They change the oil and put it away. Winterization isn’t much more than stabilizing the fuel.

    Even if owner is doing their own maintenance the 4-stroke machine is just less work and less worry.

    The reliability aspect can be dominant in purchasing decisions. Buyers will pay A LOT to avoid something they perceive as less reliable, or even potentially less reliable.
    The SVHO engine is not reliable as far as supercharger goes. Sorry bud no way no how for me considering the price point of those skis. To many failures! Unless you put Deans clutch in you will be swearing at the factory unit sometime soon. Good luck.

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  9. #67

    Will Polaris ever get back in the PWC game?

    Quote Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post
    Sea Doo always comes across as a more family friendly and luxury brand to me. I can see why they didn't, they're always adding luxury features and there's nothing luxurious about a two stroke.

    Polaris never really had much of a choice because they relied on Weber, but they do have Pro Star 4 strokes now.
    https://rzr.polaris.com/en-us/prostar/
    https://blog.woodscyclecountry.com/p...ostar-engines/

    Actually, look at this:
    https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/15/...shot-revealed/

    Polaris has a brand new, 2000cc four stroke, 203hp. I don't think it has a supercharger or anything. Kind of interesting Polaris would develop a brand new engine just for the Slingshot. Actually, Slingshot sales are declining and they are trying to revive the brand. https://www.startribune.com/with-sal...hot/567845972/


    But why would Polaris spend the money to develop a new engine (it is based on the ProStar 1000 it seems) like this for one product that has declining sales? I think they are planning on shoving this 2000cc engine into a PWC hull.

    It doesn't look that much larger than the 4 cylinder 4 strokes in other PWC.
    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictur...irst-drive/60/

    I had no idea they even had these engines. I knew they had 4 strokes in the RZRs but they were never enough to drive a large PWC. I guess they don't really have to rely on a two stroke to make a flagship PWC. I don't know how much HP you get out of a decent supercharger or turbo, but I think there's enough base there to make a serious contender. As much as I would like to see them come back, Polaris could make the ProStar engines work.
    I think you are right on this! Very interesting. Keep in mind the Kawi 1500 jetski engine was adapted from street bike. So your logic is solid ..

    2000cc would build them a competitive 4 stroke for sure. If they used turbo vs SC for a boosted engine. GAME ON!

  10. #68
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentzel View Post
    Yamaha really needs to fix the turd svho supercharger clutches...
    Apparently Yamaha did revise the supercharger clutch for 2021.

    Word is that the new clutch can also be retrofitted to the prior generation SVHO engines.

  11. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    A couple of SBT rebuilt engines would have cost me $3400 US over the last four years, times two machines. Plus the downtime doing four engine swaps. $3400 is almost 1/4 the purchase price of a new GP1800 SVHO.
    An SBT engine will cost you a lot more in repairs over time than the up front cost, compared to original or properly done yourself, lol.

  12. #70
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post
    An SBT engine will cost you a lot more in repairs over time than the up front cost, compared to original or properly done yourself .l.
    Well, original Polaris factory zero hour engines are not available anymore.

    Doing the rebuild myself costs time. My time. Missed time on the water.

    Engine failures do not happen at convenient moments when I would not be riding and have plenty of time to wrench on the engine. Engine failures tend to happen when the engine is being used, which means during riding season.

    I get that SBT has an uneven reputation. I have purchased and used an SBT engine with no significant issues. Whatever. Engines rebuilt by some other company would involve similar dollar and R&R time.

    For me, running 2-stroke engines would mean multiple engine rebuilds, at inconvenient times, on top of the dollar costs for the engines.

    I do not maintain a fleet of hot spares, I just have two PWC on the trailer. Those two machines need to be reliable and endurable.

    The Yamaha 4-stroke machines provide that.
    Last edited by K447; 09-21-2020 at 11:07 AM.

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