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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. GP1800 View Post
    Yamaha EX models are almost the exact size weight and horsepower of a Polaris SLTX. The EXR is lighter and around 125HP. I think he EX models are 100HP. The sltx I believe areas around 120HP

    climb aboard a Yamaha model with ride and you’ll wonder how you ever lived without it.
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    EXR stock weight is 540 pounds dry with 110HP, 10% more hp than the 100hp in the 600 pound EX.

    Aftermarket tune kit with impeller upgrade further boosts the EXR engine power, acceleration and top speed numbers.

    1997 SLTX, for comparison, is 615 pounds dry weight.
    The very fun SL1050 and SL900 were both 520 pounds.
    I do really like the EXR. It's a huge step in the right direction for me. I think 4 strokes have been working towards getting smaller and more agile.

    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Imagine having that sort of acceleration throughout the hull speed and RPM range.
    Several friends who have ridden our GP1800 come back after their first ride asking ‘How is this much power even legal?’

    I used to ride Polaris SL size watercraft fairly often. SL650, SL900 (eventually put a 1200 in that), and friends with various SL and Polaris Pro 785 and Pro 1200 iterations. Quick and fun for while, but so often the lakes and rivers are chewed up with boat wash, wind chop, and so on. Flat water happens but not that often. The short 2 seater hulls are fatiguing on longer rides, which is the majority of our use. Cruise range on a full tank was OK but not amazing.

    We had Virage 1200 and MSX 1200 models for years. Not as abusive a ride as the 2 seaters but the Yamahas we ride now are much, much better. Moderately rough water is now smoothed out by going faster. The jet pump stays hooked up way better than my Virage ever could, and better than the MSX too.

    Also a lot less noise. A while back I was helping a friend with Genesis i. At one point I took the seat off and did a test ride. The clattering racket from the engine was ridiculous, yet the engine was operating normally. I had just forgotten how much sound a big 2-stroke engine makes. With the seat on it is still a lot noisier than my 4-stroke Yamaha. We used to always turn our Polaris engines off in order to talk to each other. With the Yamaha I can idle and converse in a normal voice.

    I consider the current Yamaha VXR and GP1800 to be a logical modern transition for people that liked the Polaris MSX and similar models.

    The Yamaha EXR matches up fairly well with the feel of the Polaris 2 seater models.


    Seadoo has gone in different directions. We have friends with Sparks and they are quite bouncy in anything that is not smooth water. Quick enough with an aftermarket tune, but not a hull I want to spend much time on.
    I dunno, I just got off a 160hp 4 stroke Yamaha and it doesn't seem to feel anything like my pros. Maybe it's because I've gone through them and ported, polished, etc and I take good care of them. Maybe it's because you're higher up so you feel like you're going slower? I don't know, I know things are like that, old school snowmobiles feel faster just because you're closer to the ground, I don't know what the name for that is, when you're further away from something so it seems slower. It's awesome for pulling tubers, skiers, wakeboards and skates, etc.

    I don't like long cruises or anything. I basically stay in a small area and just cut and dart back and forth, I even have bouys I bring out. I have a wakeboard one for the superjet I practice jumping over and stuff. I think we have very different riding preferences and it's why we disagree so much. The most fun I have on a couch is setting up bouys and racing around them until I'm out of breath and exhaust, then I jump in the water, cool off and rest, then do it again until I'm exhausted. Driving through my own Klotz stank feels so good, too. My riding style isn't a big part of the market though. I do love how a Pro punishes you and makes you work for it. It feels good to get through a tank of gas and feel absolutely beat. I love it. Maybe I won't like it when I get older, but I'm already 34 and dealing with things pretty well.

    Deep down inside I want to see Polaris come back because I feel like they're the kind of company that would shove the Matrix motor with triple pipes and PVs into an updated Pro hull. It'd even be nice if they did something like kept the engine mounts the same. Imagine if they came out with new engines you could drop in old hulls. I don't know how many people would be excited to see something like that besides me though =/


  2. #42
    MSX 150 guy lives on Mr. GP1800's Avatar
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    Try a 260 HP Yamaha and report back.

  3. #43

    Will Polaris ever get back in the PWC game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. GP1800 View Post
    Because your sea Doo 951 Will blow up every 30 hours While the ex just keeps going and going and going
    Click image for larger version. 

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    2002 XPL on original engine.. It still goes 62mph exactly on GPS and just put away for winter. Please update this thread in 18 years with a report on EX.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    2-stroke engines in PWC are not going to come back, not for an emissions compliant, cost of ownership reasonable, broadly appealing watercraft.

    The small 4-stroke engines are close enough in total product costs (vs a putative ‘modern‘ 2-stroke PWC) and the product longevity is much, much better.

    The ‘excess’ weight of the newer 4-stroke engines is no longer a big delta overall. Yamaha is going to sell a bunch of the new 4-stroke SuperJet stand-up and the buyers are going to be happy with them. Many of those buyers are going to come from 2-strokes and know what they are leaving behind.

    I like the quieter and less frenetic 4-stroke exhaust, and the lack of exhaust smell. My own fuel injected 2-strokes engines did not smoke much at all, but they did clatter at slow speeds and wail when going fast.

    If I was lucky I would get 200 running hours from a 2-stroke PWC engine, and usually much less. Since I had several PWC, it seemed like I was rebuilding an engine if not two almost every summer.

    I have not rebuilt or even worn out a 4-stroke engine in the four years since I bought them. And my expectation is that those engines will carry on for years more.

    If I had bought two brand new 2-strokes four years ago (if that was a thing that was possible) by 300 running hours I expect one or both would be nearing or already had to be rebuilt. The ongoing cost and hassle of multiple engine rebuilds over a decade of ownership is enough to keep me away from 2-stroke engines in new watercraft.

    Even within the racing world, PWC racers are recognizing that the long term future is not 2-stroke. Certainly not the carburetor 2-strokes that were current/old technology decades ago.

    And probably not any form of fuel injected 2-stroke. BRP was the last company actively selling a fuel injected 2-stroke marine engine (Evinrude outboard) and they just announced the end of that.
    And yamaha is now moving back to 2-strokes in sleds this season after many years of 4-strokes..

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. GP1800 View Post
    Try a 260 HP Yamaha and report back.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    135 miles last weekend on SVHO. Where you at?

    I’m not bashing the 1800s. Its a “Ferrari” class though at $18k +. I firmly believe that if Polaris comes back they need to find a gap in the market. Something much different than what’s already out there. Either a DI 2 stroke that is interesting. Or maybe develop a utility machine that no other MFGR has. It took Yamaha 16 years to get the 1800 to where it is today, and it is still eating supercharger clutches every 100 hours, yikes! And at $18k gee whiz. If Yamaha can’t make the engines right, Polaris will need to go a completely different direction.

  6. #46

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    LMAO !!!
    We have Many ski's left from the 90's that have nothing ever done to them with 100's of hrs ,new skis are nice if you are going to put 100's of hrs on a yr but when you don't even put 50 on a yr if that why bother

  7. #47
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentzel View Post

    2002 XPL on original engine...
    Accumulated running hours?

  8. #48
    MSX 150 guy lives on Mr. GP1800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Accumulated running hours?
    Probably 29 if it hasn’t blown up yet

  9. #49
    MSX 150 guy lives on Mr. GP1800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 785 lugs View Post
    LMAO !!!
    We have Many ski's left from the 90's that have nothing ever done to them with 100's of hrs ,new skis are nice if you are going to put 100's of hrs on a yr but when you don't even put 50 on a yr if that why bother

    Because I can fill it with a tank of pump gas and run near 80 mph all day long while being comfortable enough to do 150 miles or more in a day all while not worrying about it going lean and melting a piston. Knowing I can trust the machine to take me to the middle of nowhere and not worry about needing to be towed back. Knowing I can do this for hundreds and hundreds of running hours needing nothing more than an oil change every 50 hours. A little basic maintenance once or twice a year is all the wrenching needed.

    Don’t get me wrong. I had a lot of fun on my Polaris machines. But stepping up into something modern has taken my enjoyment to a whole new level. I take rides and trips I never would have dreamed of doing on a 20 year old 2 stroke machine. If you’re just ripping up and down a river or doing circles on a small lake the older machines are fine and in some ways more fun. I’d be bored as hell on my ski on a small lake.

  10. #50
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentzel View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    135 miles last weekend on SVHO.

    I’m not bashing the 1800s. Its a “Ferrari” class though at $18k +.

    I firmly believe that if Polaris comes back they need to find a gap in the market. ...

    ... It took Yamaha 16 years ...
    I find it curious how often owners of FX SVHO refer to the machine by the engine type rather than the hull model designation.

    List price in US$ for the FX SVHO is under $16K. Taxes and whatever for final purchase, but the manufacturer doesn’t get that portion.

    The Yamaha EX series and VX models are of course priced much lower than SVHO models.

    I agree that any new entrant into the PWC market would need to find an edge. And they will not have sixteen years to get it right. Polaris was only in the PWC market for thirteen years (1992-2004). Honda for seven years.

    A new entrant would have to basically hit it out of the ballpark from the get go.

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