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  1. #11
    David Drkvampire2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiPeRcO View Post
    Sure, the guys in the board room are saying "we never made a profit in the 10+ years we did this, but hey, lets try it again"
    Except they did make money in the 90s. im not holding my breath but it would sure be interesting if they did.


  2. #12
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    well maybe they aren't killing "it" in the ATV business, but lots of people are filing liability lawsuits....

    they better have some better liability risk engineers in the future

    https://www.startribune.com/new-laws.../?refresh=true
    More lawsuits claiming Polaris ATVs suddenly caught fire, resulting in injuries, have been filed in Hennepin County District Court.


    The new cases involve fires that occurred this year, including one that resulted in a passenger’s death. One also involved a replacement vehicle issued to an Arizona man after his original Polaris 2015 off-road RZR vehicle caught fire.
    Medina-based Polaris — a $6.1 billion maker of off-road vehicles, snowmobiles and motorcycles — said it will not comment on individual cases but has denied wrongdoing in court papers.


    To date, plaintiffs from around the country filed at least nine lawsuits against Polaris for vehicle fires and burns. Three cases were filed in Minnesota this year, preceded by four other cases in 2017 and 2018. The other two are being heard in California.

  3. #13
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savageman69 View Post
    actually the guy from watercraft journal said they have plans to re enter if the election goes the right way....this is on video
    Make Polaris Great Again!

  4. #14
    savageman69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drkvampire2001 View Post
    Except they did make money in the 90s. im not holding my breath but it would sure be interesting if they did.
    if they didnt make money at all then it was poor management...when i was a kid they were everywhere....having grown up now and got into the 90s units...i have no idea why someone would buy a brp over polaris....polaris engines (domestics) are robust, reliable and not being pushed to the ragged edge like brp did....faster than all of them too...ever work on a 90s brp crap they suck and are just overly complicated for no reason.....polaris was ahead of the time, self draining, sealed pump bearings..no cheap carbon seals....faster than most as well and lets talk fuel mileage, even today the polaris are better than most.

    Lets talk msx...that was a long time a head of the curve..amazing style, handling and chop ability ahead of its time....even today it still looks good and relevant.....that hull with updates...250+ hp would be unreal. Polaris was just to late to the game all together and way to ahead of the curve for features and design.....way to many buy brp because of the name, it sure isnt for reliability or quality......Some times the sheep mentality ruins a good thing, this is the case, few of my buddies have 90s or early 00 brps and wow i have no idea how they outsold polaris other wise

  5. #15
    Polaris had no path forward in 2004 after FICHT direct fuel injection for 2-stroke (manufactured by OMC / later Evinrude) was purchased by BRP. The FICHT fuel injection system was modified and ETEC was born. BRP ultimately saved 2-strokes for all end users due to tightening emission regulation. Two strokes were done!

    Polaris watercraft died because no 4 stroke engine was developed or available for pwc. The weber engine was put in the MSX 150 in 2005 but it was too underpowered and problematic. Their direct injection 2-strokes then had no emission compliant injection system to continue forward. This was unfortunate because so much R&D went into the MSX hulls. They were and still are good hulls, with nice smooth lines and fun to ride.

    BRP recently dumped Evinrude so ETEC Polaris? who knows!

  6. #16
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentzel View Post
    Polaris had no path forward in 2004 after FICHT direct fuel injection for 2-stroke (manufactured by OMC / later Evinrude) was purchased by BRP. ...

    Polaris watercraft died because no 4 stroke engine was developed or available for pwc. The weber engine was put in the MSX 150 in 2004 but it was too underpowered and problematic. Their direct injection 2-strokes then had no emission compliant injection system to continue forward...
    BRP acquired the Ficht/OMC assets circa 2000, not 2004. So Polaris was buying Ficht parts from BRP for the last four years of production.

    The Polaris Ficht system was already compliant with the pending 2006 emissions regulations, hence the one star Low Emissions decal on all Ficht models in the last few years of production. So the engines were compliant. Polaris had worked through most of the reliability issues around the Ficht system by around 2003.

    The MSX hull was in production and formed the core of their future model plans.

    The core issue was that clearly the future was in four stroke engines, and the two-cylinder 750cc Weber was just not going to be enough. Seadoo already had the 4-Tec 1500cc engine in production. Not yet supercharged, but clearly a much better foundation for more powerful versions and better reliability. And that 4-Tec engine was designed from the ground up for PWC operation, unlike the Weber engine.

  7. #17
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savageman69 View Post
    if they didnt make money at all then it was poor management...when i was a kid they were everywhere....having grown up now and got into the 90s units...i have no idea why someone would buy a brp over polaris....polaris engines (domestics) are robust, reliable and not being pushed to the ragged edge like brp did....faster than all of them too...ever work on a 90s brp crap they suck and are just overly complicated for no reason.....polaris was ahead of the time, self draining, sealed pump bearings..no cheap carbon seals....faster than most as well and lets talk fuel mileage, even today the polaris are better than most.

    Lets talk msx...that was a long time a head of the curve..amazing style, handling and chop ability ahead of its time....even today it still looks good and relevant.....that hull with updates...250+ hp would be unreal. Polaris was just to late to the game all together and way to ahead of the curve for features and design.....way to many buy brp because of the name, it sure isnt for reliability or quality......Some times the sheep mentality ruins a good thing, this is the case, few of my buddies have 90s or early 00 brps and wow i have no idea how they outsold polaris other wise
    I don't think personal watercraft were ever a seriously profitable business. The only companies that make them and have been successful make a lot of other things to float themselves. BRP owns a ton, Yamaha owns a ton (I have a Yamaha home theater lol). Kawasaki is bigger than anyone here probably thinks, they make aircraft, heavy equipment, train/subway cars and stuff. They're one of Japan's largest industrial manufacturers.

    Kawasaki is probably the perfect example of a company making watercraft not for profit. I can guarantee you Kawasaki Jet Ski are such a small amount of revenue compared to the rest of Kawasaki that they could just stop tomorrow and it wouldn't phase them. I like Kawasaki skis, but I feel like given their market share, they're only doing it to save face because they are Japanese and they don't want to be the creators of Jet Ski yet step out of the business.

    Arctic Cat couldn't make it, they just make other man toys. Mastercraft couldn't make it, they mostly just make boats. Maybe making PWC has some profitable times, but it seems like you need a lot of other industries to float your PWC division. But, I can see Polaris coming back given the market. I've never seen it like this, new skis are on backorder and you can't find a decent used one at a decent price because there's too much demand. COVID has changed people's spending habits, they're not spending money on vacations, they're spending money on toys. And it's probably going to stay that way for a long time. Even if the world went back to normal tomorrow, I think a lot of people have seen the value of spending $10,000 on toys instead of taking a couple family vacations, and they'd be less likely to travel. You also have these paranoid as **** liberals who think Wuhan Flu works like the bubonic plague and can be spread super easily and is a guaranteed death if you get it.

    It's possible in this new day and age, PWC can become profitable. And that's probably why Polaris is betting on the next election, Trump is so friendly towards American businesses that Polaris could easily get all sorts of perks for making PWC in the USA. Though Polaris did shift a lot of production to Mexico, and their quality has suffered a bit for it.

  8. #18
    savageman69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    BRP acquired the Ficht/OMC assets circa 2000, not 2004. So Polaris was buying Ficht parts from BRP for the last four years of production.

    The Polaris Ficht system was already compliant with the pending 2006 emissions regulations, hence the one star Low Emissions decal on all Ficht models in the last few years of production. So the engines were compliant. Polaris had worked through most of the reliability issues around the Ficht system by around 2003.

    The MSX hull was in production and formed the core of their future model plans.

    The core issue was that clearly the future was in four stroke engines, and the two-cylinder 750cc Weber was just not going to be enough. Seadoo already had the 4-Tec 1500cc engine in production. Not yet supercharged, but clearly a much better foundation for more powerful versions and better reliability. And that 4-Tec engine was designed from the ground up for PWC operation, unlike the Weber engine.
    There is a photo floating around of the weber they wanted to put in which was a 4 cylinder with a bunch more hp ....dan said it was being developed before the end. Its to bad id love to see what a 250-300 hp msx would have been like

  9. #19
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savageman69 View Post
    ... Id love to see what a 250-300 hp msx would have been like
    There is a GH member in the UK that fitted a 4-Tec supercharged engine into his MSX hull. Circa 250hp. Did a really nice job, as I recall. Photos and build thread on here somewhere?

  10. #20
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    There is a GH member in the UK that fitted a 4-Tec supercharged engine into his MSX hull. Circa 250hp. Did a really nice job, as I recall. Photos and build thread on here somewhere?
    There are actually several MSX 4-tec conversions running around. GGG, beerdart both made one, plus the one overseas. Threads in the conversion forum, iirc.

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