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Thread: Sticky Rings

  1. #1
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    Sticky Rings

    Has anyone experienced lots of stuck rings? One of my pro had two stuck rings in the center, and one stuck lower ring on the PTO.

    The wrist pins, wrist pin bearings, and connecting rod wrist pin end are in pretty rough shape. too. I've been through this a quite a bit, I actually just had this crank sent off to CrankWorks in 2017 and it looks like it's getting new rods and a rebuild again. There is some light scoring on the exhaust side on center too, on both sides of the exhaust port.

    I was curious, what normally causes this and if anyone is familiar with it. I think it overheated, but whatever happened I feel like I screwed up royally and I'd like to know how to fix it or how to prevent it in the future.

    It's turned into a winter project for me, but I am really curious if that's an overheat situation or if there's something else that went wrong. I'm going to have plenty of time to mess with it this winter so I might as well go through it completely.

    Oddly enough it still ran decently, not like a Pro 785 should, but it wasn't like it had a hard seize or you could instantly tell something was wrong. It was enough to know it wasn't running right but it still moved around ok.

    I have a lot of hours on this ski, like a lot. It doesn't have the stock MFD in it, but center has never been touched and the nikasil is worn so much it almost looks chromed, same with the front. She is tired. Not sure if the lack of cross hatch had anything to do with it, but the real one is the one that's sleeved and that had a stuck ring too.

    Thoughts? I can get pictures, too. Looks like there was water in the combustion chamber at one point because the sleeved cylinder looks like crap. So much for a three seater winter project, lots of people are going to be disappointed lol.


  2. #2
    She likes the bike. But the ski gets her wet!!!! xlint89's Avatar
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    You like your benol. Might need to change oils.

    Love my Legend

  3. #3
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    I didn't entirely think about that, I did find a lot of excess black gum in center cylinder, specially on the underside of the piston. I wonder if I had it too rich and the extra benol made a big mess of everything.

    I don't know if the oil is the sole cause, or if I messed something up and the oil made it worse, but Legend looks like some really good stuff. I'm gonna switch when I'm done with the Klotz I have left, and I'll probably keep it out of the pros for now. Normally Klotz KL101 has been great for me, even after taking it down. But I was fattening up the adjustment screws and maybe when a ski gets too rich, the extra benol can cause some serious problems as the residue starts to build up. Do you run it 50:1? I've been running the Klotz at 44:1. I thought normal was 40:1.

    The bottom of the center piston was bad, there was enough benol on there that it was bubbling up and I could scrape it off. I've never seen it do that before. But if it didn't have benol, whatever caused that to happened wouldn't have made such a huge mess. I might go through the carbs this winter too.

  4. #4
    casey67's Avatar
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    Rings stuck by what ? Rings are spring loaded and under normal conditions do not "stick ".
    Overheated/too tight of a piston will wear the aluminum into the space of the rings.

    Did you have different pistons and clearances with the sleeved cylinder ?
    Type of piston will mater.

    At some point all oil will burn/overheat/"gum" . But at normal or close to normal engine temps it shouldn't.

    Rich mixture is nothing to be afraid of. Adding fuel and not loosing performance leads me to beleive you were lean.
    2 stroke will make its best most power right when its melting down. The extra 1/8 turn out will increase rpm and start burning piston.

    When increasing fuel mixture-the amount of extra oil will be almost unmeasureable.

    At 1500-7000rpm the engine sees sooo many different conditions, sooo many times.

  5. #5
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    Center and rear. Center is still nikasil, but it's pretty worn out and polished. I don't think I've ever touch the center cylinder on this ski and I've had it for almost 20 years.

    Rear is the one with the sleeve, only one ring stuck. Two stuck in center.

    They are all wiseco. The front cylinder and piston look absolutely great. I've never had a problem with Klotz before, but it's like there was a ton of extra benol in center and rear. I didn't post it, but center actually kind of has some remotely looking good piston wash, even with all the black benol on top.

    But trying to read piston wash with benol has been frustrating at best. If you look really close you can see the difference between the carbon buildup and the benol build up on the top of the piston, but it's too hard to read.

    Lots of pitting on the wrist pins too. Winter of 2018 I put fresh crankworks crank in, new top end. Probably put a good 30 to 40 hours on it since then.

    There should be plenty of clearance on the rear cylinder wall. This thing used to four point seize the rear cylinder like crazy, even with cast pistons and the nikasil. We ended up boring it out and putting in a sleeve and adding extra clearance because it kept happening to the rear, and only the rear. This one has always been a problem ski, we bought it from a deal who was kind of crappy after they blew it up after using it as their personal ski, and they didn't tell us they blew it up, good enough to scruff up the rear cylinder cases on the intake side.

    Almost looks like it's stuck with black goo, which would be benol.
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  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post
    ... I don't know if the oil is the sole cause, or ... the oil made it worse, but Legend looks like some really good stuff. I'm gonna switch when I'm done with the Klotz I have left...
    I used the Legend ZX2R oil for multiple years.

    Anytime I had an engine apart afterwards everything was quite oily and looked good. Clean burning with minimal exhaust residue and the oil seemed to really coat and stay on all the internal engine surfaces during long term storage.

    I have always used the factory oil injection system on all my Polaris 2-stroke engines. Never had an oiling problem. Keep the oil hoses maintained and replace the inline oil filter on a schedule.
    Last edited by K447; 09-06-2020 at 06:58 PM.

  7. #7
    casey67's Avatar
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    I dont like the look of that oil. It also looks to have been "blowing "past the rings.
    I read somewhere, some sort of negative with "Castor oil".

    Not sure what to think of "racing oil" on 2 stroke. During a race it's all higher rpm. Not any "recreational" type riding (no wake zones-off throttle time-part throttle).
    Arent most race engines rebuilt fairly frequently.

  8. #8
    johnsonmtz's Avatar
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    Two issues I see:
    1) LEAN -- Improper jetting or high speed needle adjustment. The tops of the pistons are pure black which tells me you're running very lean. The gummy oil on the under side of the piston shows you're cooking the oil that's getting up there. Also, the galled wrist pins means they're getting no lubrication. This engine needs major carb tuning.

    2) Bad cylinder wall clearance. I don't think your rings are sticking but you have too much piston to cylinder wall clearance. When you built this, did you measure cylinder bore and piston diameter? Also, did you check ring gap before assembling?

  9. #9
    sdlvx's Avatar
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    Castor bean oil leaves a black film when it burns. The idea is that it leaves a protective film on everything. But whatever happened, it left black goo everywhere. That includes the top of the piston. My plugs will be straight up sopping wet and fouled and the piston top will still be almost completely black. They never ever look like they should with piston wash, no matter how fat I go with this oil. The underside of the piston is actually all black goo, not burn marks. You can scrape it off with your fingernail.

    I am 100% done with the castor bean klotz after this. I'm going to get 4 gallons of Legend after this, it's cheaper and everywhere I read people love it after taking their engines apart.

    I did check clearance properly when installing the pistons, I've been doing this for a long time and never really had too many problems. I don't usually check ring end gap though. The rings are suck with black goo, they are still stuck even after I removed the piston. I can pull them back and it's just sopping wet in the piston channel where the ring goes.

    At least I know to stop this bean oil. The idea was that if it was 20% it wouldn't have all the bad parts of castor bean oil, but apparently there's enough to still cause problems. Maybe I did something stupid like double premixed my oil? At least if it doesn't have castor bean oil, if something like this happens again it's not going to goo up everything.

  10. #10
    MSX 150 guy lives on Mr. GP1800's Avatar
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    The Legend oil is phenomenal stuff. I would never use anything else in a 2 stroke. Hell I even use it in my weed Wacker

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