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  1. #11
    pwc4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizeagle View Post
    From what I have read...
    With all do respect, I am looking for personal experiences from people who have ran or are running E85 on their SHO or SVHO powered waverunner. Not discrediting any info you have shared. I'm sure it will be insightful to others.

    Has anyone personally experienced issues with fuel line corrosion, seals breaking down, rusty valves or cylinder walls, etc.?

    What kind of gains did you see when tuned properly for E85?

    What size injectors and other fuel system modifications did you need to support a 16-20# wheel spinning upwards of 9,000rpm?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXSlowKroozer View Post
    The gains we have seen with it back to back with no other changes is really only about 150 rpms.
    Kroozer, thanks for the info. Can you please clarify this statement? Did you not even change the tune to run the E85 when you saw the 150rpm gain? Or did you throw more timing at it to take advantage of the higher octane rating and cooling properties?

  3. #13
    Bob 1tommygunner1927's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwc4life View Post
    With all do respect, I am looking for personal experiences from people who have ran or are running E85 on their SHO or SVHO powered waverunner. Not discrediting any info you have shared. I'm sure it will be insightful to others.

    Has anyone personally experienced issues with fuel line corrosion, seals breaking down, rusty valves or cylinder walls, etc.?

    What kind of gains did you see when tuned properly for E85?

    What size injectors and other fuel system modifications did you need to support a 16-20# wheel spinning upwards of 9,000rpm?

    Pump E-85 is not consistently E-85. As such, your tune will never be consistent either. Flex fuel vehicles utilize a sensor to "tell" the ecu the what the ethanol percentage is, and its programmed to match whatever the percentage is. This means you have to use a dedicated E-85 such as this:
    https://vpracingfuels.com/product/x85/?c=217

    The ecu will require re-tuning and will need larger fuel injectors.

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  5. #14
    You have to throw timing at it or your 100% going to lose speed.Aslong as the pump E85 is coming from a consistent source I have personally had no issues IMO

  6. #15

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    Pwc4life why don’t you just install a dedicated methanol injection system and avoid all the problems with converting to e85 if you’re looking to use E 85 in your machine? I use it to remove the heat soak and cool the discharge air temperature from the supercharger. It does not add a lot of horsepower if any, just makes the throttle a little bit more crisper or responsive.

    take care
    CJ

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tommygunner1927 View Post
    Pump E-85 is not consistently E-85. As such, your tune will never be consistent either. Flex fuel vehicles utilize a sensor to "tell" the ecu the what the ethanol percentage is, and its programmed to match whatever the percentage is. This means you have to use a dedicated E-85 such as this:
    https://vpracingfuels.com/product/x85/?c=217

    The ecu will require re-tuning and will need larger fuel injectors.
    I've seen some guys claiming to be running fixed maps, fixed boost, and consistent AFR with pump E85. My understanding of a flex fuel sensor in vehicles was when to tell the engine to switch from is gas map to the ethanol map. At a certain percentage I believe it trips from one to the other. I know my truck operates this way. The E85 map in it is very conservative, able to run as low as E50. I've seen several guys with hellcats and other boosted cars have their ethanol maps set to run as low as E70 to allow for variation in fuel quality. As long as they're above that, they're safe. Why would a ski be any different?

    And I understand it would require a reflash. It would be my intent to in order to take full advantage of its benefits. What size injectors would you expect me to need for my setup? I have an ET18 with 1000cc injectors now and a 340LPH fuel pump. Would those not be large enough?

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXSlowKroozer View Post
    You have to throw timing at it or your 100% going to lose speed.Aslong as the pump E85 is coming from a consistent source I have personally had no issues IMO
    How much timing were you able to add in the back to back test you conducted?


  9. #18
    This was with two different reflashes from the same tuner one for pump gas and the other for ethanol.There were no changes to the ski other than extensive upgrades to the entire fuel system for ethanol.Tuning wise both the idle timing and total timing need to be different with E85 just like on a car.What the exact timing was used I couldnt say because I didnt write the tuning but on a ski boosting 25psi turning 9500rpms at the time it was worth 150rpms so an educated guess would be 1-2 degrees more timing at most.Now on a stock wheel ski with much less boost and lower rpms using a standalone you could dail in more timing and pick up a little more

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXSlowKroozer View Post
    This was with two different reflashes from the same tuner one for pump gas and the other for ethanol.There were no changes to the ski other than extensive upgrades to the entire fuel system for ethanol.Tuning wise both the idle timing and total timing need to be different with E85 just like on a car.What the exact timing was used I couldnt say because I didnt write the tuning but on a ski boosting 25psi turning 9500rpms at the time it was worth 150rpms so an educated guess would be 1-2 degrees more timing at most.Now on a stock wheel ski with much less boost and lower rpms using a standalone you could dail in more timing and pick up a little more
    Good to know. In that case I can certainly see where it's not worth the hassle. Must have had a pretty solid 93 flash to begin with. I hear these motors like to be around 22-23 degrees. I would have figured a 25psi setup would have had to be down around 15 degrees or less to be safe on 93, and that you may have been able to get back up to 22-23 degrees with E85. Thanks for the info!

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  12. #20
    Bob 1tommygunner1927's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwc4life View Post
    I've seen some guys claiming to be running fixed maps, fixed boost, and consistent AFR with pump E85. My understanding of a flex fuel sensor in vehicles was when to tell the engine to switch from is gas map to the ethanol map. At a certain percentage I believe it trips from one to the other. I know my truck operates this way. The E85 map in it is very conservative, able to run as low as E50. I've seen several guys with hellcats and other boosted cars have their ethanol maps set to run as low as E70 to allow for variation in fuel quality. As long as they're above that, they're safe. Why would a ski be any different?

    And I understand it would require a reflash. It would be my intent to in order to take full advantage of its benefits. What size injectors would you expect me to need for my setup? I have an ET18 with 1000cc injectors now and a 340LPH fuel pump. Would those not be large enough?

    From your first post:

    It's a recreational ski, but does not go on long rides and is only used for 15-20 hours per year, so I am not concerned about the rate of fuel consumption. My biggest concern is the ski sits on a hoist 24/7 throughout the summer months. Is this a deal breaker given the fact that E85 is a hygroscopic fuel?

    The above alone should be enough reason NOT to convert to E-85. In my view its a deal breaker.

    Watch the below video, How Flex fuel control works:
    https://www.haltech.com/how-flex-fuel-control-works/

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