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  1. #1

    2004 MSX 150 No Start

    I just replaced the head gasket on my msx 150, I bought it not running and did the gasket myself. I am having an issue with starting it. I am getting spark, fuel, and have good compression. I have more than 11 volts while cranking. The check engine light is on, but it was off for a short period of time while trying to start it. Are there any simple things that I may have forgotten on my reinstall?
    It only has 130 hours on it, I have tried jumping the SIFB, read that in a thread. I have found a lot of useful information here but nothing specific to my issue. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


  2. #2
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Welcome to Greenhulk!

    Diagnostic cables
    might be helpful.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiPeRcO View Post
    Welcome to Greenhulk!

    Diagnostic cables
    might be helpful.
    Welcome to GreenHulk and congrats on your MSX 150.

    How do you know it is getting fuel? If you are truly getting spark and fuel it should hit and run if timed properly.

    Do you have a manual. There are very good wiring diagrams in the manual. There are two ground wires you need to ensure are in the proper place. The Bosch ECU and control system on these are bullet proof.

  4. #4
    CliffsidePM's Avatar
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    If I had to guess the timing is off.

  5. #5
    Cliffside and ROBO, I timed my engine at BDC last summer when I was reassembling, I contacted Randy at Weber because i was certain that something was wrong, due to the fact that I could only hand rotate the engine about 320 degrees. He informed me that I was supposed to time the engine at TDC, so I timed the engine again, correctly, I seem to have good compression, I haven't tested it yet because I can't find the tester, I have spark, I took a coil and plug out, attached a wire to the ground and clipped it to the spark plug and it sparked on ignition. I checked the timing against the spark of the engine by placing a wooden dowel in the spark plug hole while watching the spark. The every time the piston hit the dowel at TDC the plug would spark. I bought this PWC at an auction it had "a blown head gasket" according to the auctioneer, so finished the half started job with the included service manual.

    I have looked cover to cover and have not found where all of the ground cables go, I currently have the ground from battery and the two ground terminals from the wiring harness all grounded to the stud on the rear facing side of the intake above the fresh water/coolant exchange. If someone could tell me where all grounds are supposed to be that would be phenomenal!

    I am going to give creating the diagnostic cable a shot. My PWC had the check engine light on when I first connected the battery, It went off for a brief period of tinkering, but is now back on.

    I have tried starting fluid and putting fuel directly in the cylinder. I really don't know what else to try except for creating the diagnostic cable, hopefully you guys can provide me with some more insight.

    Thank you!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakefb16 View Post
    Cliffside and ROBO, I timed my engine at BDC last summer when I was reassembling, I contacted Randy at Weber because i was certain that something was wrong, due to the fact that I could only hand rotate the engine about 320 degrees. He informed me that I was supposed to time the engine at TDC, so I timed the engine again, correctly, I seem to have good compression, I haven't tested it yet because I can't find the tester, I have spark, I took a coil and plug out, attached a wire to the ground and clipped it to the spark plug and it sparked on ignition. I checked the timing against the spark of the engine by placing a wooden dowel in the spark plug hole while watching the spark. The every time the piston hit the dowel at TDC the plug would spark. I bought this PWC at an auction it had "a blown head gasket" according to the auctioneer, so finished the half started job with the included service manual.

    I have looked cover to cover and have not found where all of the ground cables go, I currently have the ground from battery and the two ground terminals from the wiring harness all grounded to the stud on the rear facing side of the intake above the fresh water/coolant exchange. If someone could tell me where all grounds are supposed to be that would be phenomenal!

    I am going to give creating the diagnostic cable a shot. My PWC had the check engine light on when I first connected the battery, It went off for a brief period of tinkering, but is now back on.

    I have tried starting fluid and putting fuel directly in the cylinder. I really don't know what else to try except for creating the diagnostic cable, hopefully you guys can provide me with some more insight.

    Thank you!
    A quick way to check timing is to put your dowel rod in the cylinder bring to top dead center and your exhaust and intake will be rocking between intake and exhaust on TDC of exhaust Stroke. If that happens then you know the cam is timed properly. If you are to far out on cam timing your valve will tap the top of the piston. You could be out 360 degrees on the crank sensor. I believe this engine only sparks on TDC of compression stroke. Some of the other guys may correct me on this if Iím wrong. That would put your spark at TDC of exhaust stroke instead of compression. Thatís where I think your at as you arenít getting anything. If it were a sensor etc youíd be getting popping or running rough.

    FYI Your CEL will stay on 10 seconds after you run. DW wonít tell you if your out of time but it will tell you if you have an injector or spark issue.

  7. #7
    Just to clarify that, when my engine is TDC compression, all valves should be closed on that cylinder and there should be spark. If all that is true, then what could my issue be? I will take the valve cover off tomorrow and check to make sure that all lines up, but I don't see how I could be that far out of time considering I followed the manual correctly the second time.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakefb16 View Post
    Just to clarify that, when my engine is TDC compression, all valves should be closed on that cylinder and there should be spark. If all that is true, then what could my issue be? I will take the valve cover off tomorrow and check to make sure that all lines up, but I don't see how I could be that far out of time considering I followed the manual correctly the second time.
    You have 720 degrees to complete the cycle in a 4 stroke so you have TDC of compression stroke right before power stroke. This is where both valves will be closed and rockers will be loose. Then you have TDC of Exhaust Stroke right before the downward travel of the intake stroke. Thatís what you need to be aware of. Both Valves look closed but they are actually rocking between both strokes. There is a little valve overlap for scavenging so as your rotating the engine youíll see them rock from exhaust to intake. You have to spark on compression stroke not exhaust stroke.

  9. #9
    Ye Ol Salty Dog's Avatar
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    I’m thinking that you’re possibly 180* out of time.

    Important to note: there are both double dots and single dots on the bottom end gears. Pay close attention when following the timing procedure.

    Also important to note: if the engine is 180* out of time, it will still have good compression and appear to be correct.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ye Ol Salty Dog View Post
    Iím thinking that youíre possibly 180* out of time.

    Important to note: there are both double dots and single dots on the bottom end gears. Pay close attention when following the timing procedure.

    Also important to note: if the engine is 180* out of time, it will still have good compression and appear to be correct.
    Salty Dog does the Weber Fire every revolution or only on Compression Stroke? Iím not confident of that answer. Im still thinking on being 180 out? It would fire still fire at TDC because reference is off the crank? 180 out CCW would put the intake open? 180 out CW would put the valves still closed? I can see it I guess but we would see the intake open on an upstroke and the exhaust open on a downstroke, correct?

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