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  1. #1

    Learning a Hard Lesson - HELP

    I just purchased (one week ago) a package deal. A two bunk trailer in good condition, a 98 gp1200 and an 01 gp1200r. Both skis are clean and the engines appeared to be maintained. I was unable to test ride them prior to purchasing but the owner ran them w/ water and they seemed to run well. The guy is a 55ish year old man who owns a restaurant and lives in a multi-million dollar home. He told me both skis had been rebuilt w/in the last two years and likely had less than 100 hours each. I choose to trust him as being an honest person. I mean after all would he lie to me and my 10 year old son who he driven 300 miles for the skis? He couldnít. WRONG.

    Took both skis out last weekend and they seemed to run fine - a little under powered but I assumed maybe jetting since I live at 4000í or so. WRONG.

    Took the skis out again this past Thursday w/ all new quality ethanol-free fuel got to the lake and the gp refused to start and the 1200r bogged badly all day.

    Rented a compression tester yesterday and what do you know. GP #ís all under 100 and looks like the 1200r may suffer the same condition (tester quit working).

    Iím glad I spent every penny I had to get the family out on the water this summer. Now Iíll be doing not one but two engines it appears.

    To my question (and I apologize for venting). There is now way I can get two engines done for this season without some help. I have tuned a fair amount of wrenches on bikes and cars but never on skis. Iím a complete noob beyond question. I am considering rebuilding one myself and buying a reman engine for the other. One, to help me get them not done but also just in case I good up the engine Iíll be working on. I can post to classifieds yet. Can anyone on the forum direct me to a quality used engine for either ski? Or a company that builds quality reman motors? I could care less about power and performance. I want reliability. I want bulletproof. My two young kids are leaning with us on these skis. I really need some help finding a used quality motor or a Reputable person or company that I can go to for the above.

    Iíve been reading GH posts for about 36 hours non-stop now and there are some ski geniuses on this forum without questions so I will thank each of you in advance for any guidance you could offer.

    Rich

  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Welcome.

    Where are you located?

    Click on My Profile in top right corner of web site, update your location info. Sometimes someone nearby may be able to after help.

    I am not an expert regarding the two stroke Yamaha models, but I can say that the key to reliability with any brand and model of older watercraft is to do the work up front.

    Go through each machine from end to end. Do not assume anything is correct or Ďgood enoughí until you have checked/serviced/maintained. Fuel system (tank inside, fuel hoses, carbs, filter, even the fuel selector valve), electrical system, steering, reverse, hull, jet pump (internal bearings and seals, and impeller+stator), etc.

    In some cases there are well known common upgrades that improve reliability or correct for known weaknesses.

    This link is mostly about Polaris watercraft but some of the info also applies to other brands.
    http://polarispwcknowledge.shorturl....t-things-to-do

  3. #3
    @k447, thanks. I just updated my location. Bend, OR. I agree “ASSUME NOTHING AND BELIEVE NO ONE SELLING A SKI”.... Just got back from a local shop. The 01 1200r has a dead middle piston. They think a ring locator pin came loose and bounced around scarring everything. Front and back cylinder (1,3?) are at approximately 110-115psi. Since it’s safe to assume metal made its way into the crank I’m probably looking at a complete rebuild or a reman motor.

    The 98 gp1200 apparently has 110-120 psi across the three. The carbs were leaking fuel continuously down into the block. So for that ski fortunately I’ll just need to completely rebuild the carbs.

    Anyone have a set if carbs already rebuilt they want to sell and I shop my cores? Anyone have a complete 1200r PV motor for sale? Any recommendations on a reman source. I’ve not been reading excellent things about SBT.

  4. #4
    @k447, thanks. I just updated my location. Bend, OR. I agree ďASSUME NOTHING AND BELIEVE NO ONE SELLING A SKIĒ.... Just got back from a local shop. The 01 1200r has a dead middle piston. They think a ring locator pin came loose and bounced around scarring everything. Front and back cylinder (1,3?) are at approximately 110-115psi. Since itís safe to assume metal made its way into the crank Iím probably looking at a complete rebuild or a reman motor.

    The 98 gp1200 apparently has 110-120 psi across the three. The carbs were leaking fuel continuously down into the block. So for that ski fortunately Iíll just need to completely rebuild the carbs.

    Anyone have a set if carbs already rebuilt they want to sell and I shop my cores? Anyone have a complete 1200r PV motor for sale? Any recommendations on a reman source. Iíve not been reading excellent things about SBT.

  5. #5
    Any help? Are there any reputable engine rebuilders? SBT reviews aren't to encouraging.

  6. #6
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    a quality engine rebuild is going to cost more then the skis are worth.

    The only upside of an sbt motor is the warranty. Sure there is alot of bitching, but that;s mostly do in my opinion to shadetrees not taking care of the original carb problems that blkew the engine up in the first place

    swinging an sbt shortblock isn't beyond your ability. I'd send the carbs out

    a used 15 year old + ski motor is a pretty risky proposition

    call the seller and ask if he has receipts for the engine work, mention that you took him at his word, at his word seems to have been no good or perhaps HE was lied to. Sometimes you can shame liars into coughing up a couple of hundred to repairs, offer to send him copies of shop invoices for the work you're getting done.

    you'd be surprised that SBT has warrantied more then one motor for me that was on a resale. check for an SBT sticker on the blocks, might be hard to spot, but worth a look. They offer a two year warranty for a price.

    if you see one get the serial number and ring them up. They can tell you when the motor was sold and to whom ( in most cases)

    Keep in mind that even an "acceptable percentage" of clunkers coming out of sbt is going to result in complaints
    If their stuff was absolute trash they would still not be in the business, right? It's just cheap and chineseum has always been an issue in the re manufacture business. Chinese made brake pads are lucky to get 10k miles, back in the day a set of pads was good for 25k plus

    good luck. we're here.

  7. #7
    steve45's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, Rich!

    Sorry to hear about your problems, but perhaps the seller was being honest. You said that the 'Skis seemed to run fine last weekend. At 4000' elevation, the stock mixture will be way too rich. Also, your compression numbers will not be as high as at sea level. It's quite possible that the crank is OK. No way to tell unless you flush out the crankcase and crankshaft bearings and spin it by hand.

    The good news is that the 1200 R has separate cylinders that can be serviced individually. The bad news is that that engine is a pain in the butt to work on. The cylinders are Nikasil coated. It has 'power valves' that really need to be upgraded (if they haven't been). It also came with a catalytic converter that causes lots of problems. Most people remove the converter and install a 'D-Plate' to provide the correct back pressure. A sensor change is also required when you install the D-Plate.

    I would not trust SBT to properly service the 1200 R engine. I'm pretty sure they replace the Nikasil cylinders with steel sleeves (they don't dissipate the heat as well). The problem is that this is a bad time of year to get engines overhauled.

    I'm sorry this deal didn't work out well for you. Sadly, it's a story we hear all too often. I wish people would come here before they buy a used 'Ski...

  8. #8
    Thanks for all the help. I’ve decided to pull the cylinder and take a closer look. I need to see just how extensive the damage is and then reassess. I’ll check back in when I have the cylinder in hand. Thanks again.

    Partially off-topic but being new to skis I have no idea who the reputable parts vendors are. I need to rebuild carbs on my 98. What are a couple of the top parts vendors with respect to price, customer service, etc that folks here on GH prefer?

  9. #9
    steve45's Avatar
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    There are a number of online parts suppliers, but many are related. Keep in mind that the GreenHulk website sells OEM parts (click on the blue OEM Parts button near the top of the page). Use promo code GreenHulk for a 10% discount.

    When you get the cylinder apart, post pictures and we can help you with it.


  10. #10
    mudslanger's Avatar
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    Post pics of the GP1200r after you remove the head. If the engine has ever been replaced it could have a sbt motor in it. If it does it would most likely have sleeved cylinders and are usually a different height than factory which means you just can’t use any 1200 cylinder. Also if the engine is full of gas on the other one it may not be the carbs but a bad primer where someone put it on the main fuel line and not on the return like it needs to be.

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