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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeysevin View Post
    Have you ever tried to check the timing on the motor? I went through a lot of that when I was first setting up the map on my yellow racing and megasquirt ecu, I had the advance way too high and it put too much load on the starter when cranking over.

    Given that the ecu you are using is new and we have verified the tune on it, I wonder if there is something weird going on with a temp sensor that is out of range that kicks the timing up too much.

    Sean
    Sean-Thanks for the insight. I also thought of the possibility that there was too much timing in the cranking mode. That is one of the main reasons I had you burn a new ECU. What other inputs besides the water temp sensor does the ECU look at to set fuel and spark in the cranking mode? I can easily check the condition of the temp sensor by putting it in hot water (per the service manual). As far as initial timing isn't this just determined by the timing rotor? When I read the manual for installing the rotor there was no orientation procedure so I assume it is keyed.

  2. #12
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pro1200 View Post
    Sean-Thanks for the insight. I also thought of the possibility that there was too much timing in the cranking mode. That is one of the main reasons I had you burn a new ECU. What other inputs besides the water temp sensor does the ECU look at to set fuel and spark in the cranking mode? I can easily check the condition of the temp sensor by putting it in hot water (per the service manual). As far as initial timing isn't this just determined by the timing rotor? When I read the manual for installing the rotor there was no orientation procedure so I assume it is keyed.
    So on the base timing, the crank wheel is indexed and not adjustable unless its slotted or an aftermarkert crank cover. The other thing could be that the cam index nub is adjusted with different cams. 2000 zx cams have the nub in a different spot from 2001+ for instance.

    If none of that stuff has changed, and we know the ecu is good and has the correct tune. That leaves just a sensor issue or harness issue.

    Check the sensor readings by themselves, then check the same reading by unplugging the ecu and measuring the pins at the ecu plug. The resistance should not change much if at all.

    That should eliminate the sensor and harness.

    I would check all the temp sensors, the only ones that should matter are air temp, header temp, and oil pan temp. Map reading shouldn't make much of a difference and that sensor is kind of tricky.

    Sean

  3. #13
    I am new to this forum and pwc. My son bought a 2006 kawasaki stx15f and ran great when he tested it. Now it is having isssues when starting. Sometimes it starts fine and runs great, he turns it off and does not start when starting again. He jumps the batery and it fires right up and runs fine. The battery id brand new and spark plugs are brand net. Do you have any idea as to what the problem is and how to fix it?
    WHEN IT DOESNT START, IT DOESNT EVEN TURN THE MOTOR. AS IF BATT ERY WS DEAD.
    Last edited by VAM; 05-28-2020 at 11:43 PM. Reason: ADDING INFO


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeysevin View Post

    If none of that stuff has changed, and we know the ecu is good and has the correct tune. That leaves just a sensor issue or harness issue.

    Check the sensor readings by themselves, then check the same reading by unplugging the ecu and measuring the pins at the ecu plug. The resistance should not change much if at all.

    That should eliminate the sensor and harness.

    I would check all the temp sensors, the only ones that should matter are air temp, header temp, and oil pan temp. Map reading shouldn't make much of a difference and that sensor is kind of tricky.

    Sean
    Sean- The only sensor I've tested so far is the crank position sensor and that failed the resistance check. The spec is about 400-600 ohm and it measured over 3k ohms. The manual says to measure the peak voltage while running and I didn't get any voltage so I'm concluding that it is bad. My theory is that the ECU is setting the timing per the algorithm for the run mode even though the engine is in the cranking mode. Does this make any sense? I'm going to continue to inspect the sensors as these seem to be the most likely cause.

  5. #15
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pro1200 View Post
    Sean- The only sensor I've tested so far is the crank position sensor and that failed the resistance check. The spec is about 400-600 ohm and it measured over 3k ohms. The manual says to measure the peak voltage while running and I didn't get any voltage so I'm concluding that it is bad. My theory is that the ECU is setting the timing per the algorithm for the run mode even though the engine is in the cranking mode. Does this make any sense? I'm going to continue to inspect the sensors as these seem to be the most likely cause.
    The stock crank sensor is a vr sensor so it measures a voltage spike as the metal tooth sweeps past the magnet in the sensor. If you are getting a different measurement, you could either have false positives which tricks the ecu into firing really early, or missing teeth that causes it to fire late.

    Sean

  6. #16
    Problem fixed!

    It was the starter. at first I've ordered a used OEM starter on Ebay and turns out the guy sent me one from a Honda. it looks exactly like the Kawasaki starter but spins the other way. After figuring that out, I've ordered another used OEM off ebay and this time it spins the right way and cranks like it should. The previous starter was an SBT which had a loose positive connection which is why the voltage was dropping.

  7. #17
    Let me out of here......I need to go on Greenhulk!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg View Post
    Problem fixed!

    It was the starter. at first I've ordered a used OEM starter on Ebay and turns out the guy sent me one from a Honda. it looks exactly like the Kawasaki starter but spins the other way. After figuring that out, I've ordered another used OEM off ebay and this time it spins the right way and cranks like it should. The previous starter was an SBT which had a loose positive connection which is why the voltage was dropping.

    In the other thread you have going you say the starter was not the solution to this problem.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pro1200 View Post
    Oleg- You are describing the EXACT symptoms that my STX-15F race ski has. I have been fighting a starting issue for over two years now. My symptom is the starter stalls but I can sometimes get the engine to fire by "bumping" the starter repeatedly. I usually end up draining the battery but when the engine does fire it runs normally.

    Here are the diagnostics that I have performed:
    1) new battery cables-luckily my dealer took them back
    2) new OEM starter
    3) new solenoid
    4) new ECU flashed with the proper RIVA race tune
    5) new battery
    6) new starter relay

    I was about to test the fuel pump as that is one component I have never looked at since I bought the ski in 2014. This ski obviously has a lot of non stock hardware but I think the operating principles of a stock ski apply. My next guess is there is some voltage drop in the wire harness but I have no idea how to track this down.

    I have a 2006 15f with a turbo and standalone controller. This season I have noticed these same symptoms. Most of the wiring harness has been removed but some of it was spliced in so I can tell you for sure what is not causing it.
    When I first took the ski out of the garage this year and attempted to start it this happened, it drained the battery way down and flooded the motor pretty bad. Once I figured out what was happening I use a different procedure to start it. The computer has a feature that cuts fuel if the throttle is held wide open while cranking/under certain rpm. Initially I used this feature to try to clear the fuel out but since have been using it every time to start. This really helps with the cranking, if I dont it is really hard to get it started.
    My experience led me to believe that it was over fueling somehow but hasnt really been bothersome enough for me to investigate. Now I am curious and will have to look and check the data next time I am out.

  9. #19
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMiller View Post
    I have a 2006 15f with a turbo and standalone controller. This season I have noticed these same symptoms. Most of the wiring harness has been removed but some of it was spliced in so I can tell you for sure what is not causing it.
    When I first took the ski out of the garage this year and attempted to start it this happened, it drained the battery way down and flooded the motor pretty bad. Once I figured out what was happening I use a different procedure to start it. The computer has a feature that cuts fuel if the throttle is held wide open while cranking/under certain rpm. Initially I used this feature to try to clear the fuel out but since have been using it every time to start. This really helps with the cranking, if I dont it is really hard to get it started.
    My experience led me to believe that it was over fueling somehow but hasnt really been bothersome enough for me to investigate. Now I am curious and will have to look and check the data next time I am out.
    What is your cranking advance?

    Sean

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeysevin View Post
    What is your cranking advance?

    Sean

    Next time I have a minute I will hook the laptop up blutooth isnt working. I didnt change it from what james had it set at but the cranking issue seems new

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