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  1. #41
    I could not figure out why ptscon on and k447 had such strange comments about c19 but now I see ur from Canada and it makes total sense now. So now I see what I thought your paranoia was is a true sense of what could happen to you in your country would be similar to Italy / Spain (notice I did not say Germany). So for all that don’t know Canada’s social medical community cannot handle the full brunt of a pandemic they are understaffed and run a very lean government regulated system and just getting a doctors visit could take months.


  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by seabrook View Post
    I could not figure out why ptscon on and k447 had such strange comments about c19 but now I see ur from Canada and it makes total sense now. So now I see what I thought your paranoia was is a true sense of what could happen to you in your country would be similar to Italy / Spain (notice I did not say Germany). So for all that don’t know Canada’s social medical community cannot handle the full brunt of a pandemic they are understaffed and run a very lean government regulated system and just getting a doctors visit could take months.
    and thats why the rich come to the US for treatment...

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow jacket View Post
    and thats why the rich come to the US for treatment...
    You are sooo right.

  4. #44
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabrook View Post
    ... Canada’s social medical community cannot handle ... just getting a doctors visit could take months.
    Your claim represents a viewpoint that seems widespread within the USA. That most/all medical care systems that are NOT like the US are inherently inferior. This perspective seems common among US residents who have not spent significant time in Canada, and almost certainly have not needed to experience medical care here.

    Last time I needed care, I walked into a nearby clinic and was seen within a few minutes. Doctor exam, then Xray, just down the hallway. Turned out to not be broken. Walked out within the hour. I could have seen my regular physician but the clinic was convenient and I have no worries about the level of care.

    No bill, no co-pay, no restrictions regarding which 'medical network' I attended, or which location. No health insurance connected to my employer. Indeed, no employer. No monthly/whatever onerous health insurance payment.

    And somehow, the system in Canada is broadly similar to the system most of the rest of the civilized world uses. The USA system is almost unique to the USA. Every one of those other countries could, and many did at some point in the distant past, have a system similar to what the USA currently has.

    Imagine being able to change employers by simply, well, deciding to change jobs. Or deciding to strike out on your own. Without giving a second thought to how you are going to hang onto 'coverage'. My medical coverage is the same as every other citizen. I have never been significantly delayed care when I needed it with any urgency.

    Regarding this pandemic, almost every western government has been embarassed by the inability to scale up quickly. Lessons to be learned everywhere, no doubt.


    For the US, there have been daily news briefings outlining how the hospitals in New York have never had to coordinate between themselves, before now. No state wide or even city wide collaboration, no built-in load balancing of patients or staff+equipment+supplies. Shortages of equipment, capacity and staff. Overall the system was running at and above full capacity despite deferral of almost all non-Covid19 care.

    The saving grace was the aggregate increase in caseload peaked below the early projections. AND the effects of the stay at home and reduced transmission guidelines worked well enough to make the curve happen.

    Interestingly, I see news of 'free' medical care for everyone that has, or might have, Covid-19. So the people without 'coverage' can be cured and not contribute to spread. Essentially, 'social' medical care.

    At the same time, I see state governors repeatedly talking about coordinated purchasing of medical equipment, PPE and Covid-19 test capacity, and so on. Very similar to the coordinated single purchaser system used in Canada and many other countries.

    Perhaps, just perhaps, some of the lessons and experiences happening now inside the USA will translate into a re-think of what it means to have an inclusive medical care system.

    What is the upside to widespread coordination, to not having 'uncovered' people walking around, and have to go to work, when sick? And not be able to 'afford' treatment. To have medical care and coverage connected to being a citizen rather than an employee?


  5. #45
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    The greatest problem we have with healthcare in the U.S. is government involvement. In the old days, you paid for your own care. The doctor even came to your house. When income taxes became too high, companies started offering health insurance as another means of compensation for employees that wouldn't be taxed. Then the government got involved and ruined it.

    Your 'free' healthcare in Canada is most definitely NOT free.

    K447, as a Canadian, you don't understand 'free'. In the U.S., we cherish our FREEdom. Freedom from government oversight in our lives. Hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens died to procure our freedom, and many of us choose to keep it. Once freedom is lost, you can never get it back. It's the thing that sets our country apart from the rest of the world.

    We have a Constitution that places specific limits on what the government can do to our citizens. There are no exceptions for a virus, nor anything else. Our government is trampling our rights and a lot of us won't stand for it.

    Most of the COVID 19 problem is centered around the New York City area. NYC is most certainly NOT representative of the rest of our country. Those people live on top of each other and pack themselves into subway trains like sardines. They don't know what real life is like. Living in NYC is like living in a sewer--and, yes, I've been there.

    Many of the rest of us live and work outdoors. COVID 19 really isn't a problem. However, hundreds of hospitals nationwide are laying off staff because of the virus. WHAT? That's right, they have to turn away routine work in order to prepare for COVID 19 patients that will never show up. In the meantime, people that are in pain and in need of knee replacements, hip replacements, rotator cuff surgery, or even colonoscopies can't get them. Our local hospital will lose $3M this month and will likely lose twice that next month because they aren't allowed to operate.

    ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE!

  6. #46
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    Yes, enough of this nonsense ^

  7. #47
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    I did not use the word free. Health care in Canada, and many other countries, is most certainly paid for. It is a shared tax that funds a shared resource.

    Across the world and in the USA, a lot of people live in cities. Perhaps (probably) more than half of humanity. It is imperative that the people in cities be cared for. To do otherwise is to invite disaster.

    Imagine that hospitals were funded (and scaled) on the basis of the population area that they serve. Not on how many expensive knee surgeries or whatever. That they are funded simply to be there, be ready, be available to everyone. And tasked with efficiently serving those people.

    The regional hospital capacity 'excess headroom' of the generally prudent Covid-19 preparative stance should be short-lived. As we learn how to live with this thing and manage risk within the population and in the hospitals, elective and other surgeries and so on will resume. Here and elsewhere.

    It is unfortunate that your distrust of your current government(s) has made it so difficult to imagine competent government. In many ways the US can be an amazing place. Imagine if you found ways to create and maintain really good governments.
    Last edited by K447; 04-21-2020 at 12:54 PM.

  8. #48

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    This is very unnerving for us ( U.S. Citizens ) to stay in place laws and laws to wear masks. Yes it might be needed but here in the USA we don`t want our gov telling us what to do. Like Steve45 said."Once freedom is lost, you can never get it back." We don't need presidence for laws governing our health or were we worship here in the USA.
    Last edited by cjk6119; 04-21-2020 at 01:25 PM.

  9. #49
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    moving on
    Last edited by ptscon; 04-21-2020 at 02:15 PM. Reason: moving on

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptscon View Post
    What freedoms are you losing? These are temporary measures to save lives.
    We here have a written Constitution of Freedoms that must be upheld.

    May save lives,but don't trample my rights in doing so.Temporary or not, our legal system has set legal precedence anytime a new law has been enacted and will need most likely be changed as it is already in court. Some conservative voices are now questioning the legality of stay-at-home orders. One conservative commentator called stay-at-home orders “totalitarian” and cast doubt on their constitutionality.

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