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  1. #1
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    2000 Virage 2 Cylinder - No Spark

    I have a few questions on this 2000 Virage (2 cyl domestic engine with the Gen III ignition) I am trying to get running. Was told it ran last year before being put in storage/solenoid failure. I replaced the bad solenoid and found no spark situation.

    Tests I have done include:

    By-passing the LR module.

    Holding bilge button while cranking

    Tested voltage while cranking (11-11.5v)

    Ohm tested Stator (All very close to spec)

    Tested Brown lead from CDI (9.x Volts during cranking)

    Resistance tested the Hall Effect Sensor (No shorts all OL)

    Checked all grounds and connections in E-box for corrosion/looseness/ect

    Confirmed Laynard switch is functioning correctly

    Unplugged Black/Yellow and cranked

    During my testing I also did a voltage test on the orange wire tabs during cranking. From my reading the LR module should send battery power through orange wire to bilge during cranking/running correct? Or is it only after it is actually running?

    Another thing I noticed is the Red/Purple to CDI is connected to constant 12v. So the service bulletin of moving it to the orange wire tabs has not been performed?

    I went to test the coil and had weird results (I think?). With the black/white connections still hooked up I tested OHM between the two. I don't recall that being off spec but can't remember exact reading right now. I then tested with the leads in each spark plug boot. I got no reading (OL/1). This seemed odd to me as I thought I would get a reading. Next I grounded black lead and checked voltage at each Black/White during cranking. It was low (like 1-3 volts) if I remember correctly. Not sure what reading I should have there?

    Is there any tests I am flat missing? I know I can do the 9v test on the hall effect. Was holding off on that but suppose it needs done at this stage.

    I guess my main question is where should I look next? The coil has me perplexed on its readings. But that is a $100 gamble to replace.


  2. #2
    casey67's Avatar
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    Good job so far, but looks like you have a few problems to deal with.
    The 9v on brown while cranking is a bit higher then usual but should be OK.
    I would look closely at the in-line stator connecter, the wires dealing with your problems run through there.

    Yes , LR should power orange while cranking- when it sees a signal on the yellow stator wire that IT IS cranking.

    Should have a reading plug wire to plug wire, check the tabs under the boots-also a connection at the coil- test plu wires separately.

    Should have around 70volts going to the coil on blk/wht from CDI , WHEN it sees a signal from stator, that leads to 9v test,

  3. #3
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey67 View Post
    Good job so far, but looks like you have a few problems to deal with.
    The 9v on brown while cranking is a bit higher then usual but should be OK.
    I would look closely at the in-line stator connecter, the wires dealing with your problems run through there.

    Yes , LR should power orange while cranking- when it sees a signal on the yellow stator wire that IT IS cranking.

    Should have a reading plug wire to plug wire, check the tabs under the boots-also a connection at the coil- test plu wires separately.

    Should have around 70volts going to the coil on blk/wht from CDI , WHEN it sees a signal from stator, that leads to 9v test,
    Okay,

    When doing the stator ohm checks I paid close attention to the 8 pin connector between E-Box and stator. Nothing appeared corroded or bent/damaged. All connections I have dealt with have been covered in the original dielectric grease still.

    It appears the LR isn't getting signal from the yellow stator wire or is getting signal but is not providing switched 12v to the orange circuit. What readings should I see on that yellow stator wire (RPM Signal per documentation links)?

    I will do some more looking at the plug wires/coil testing. I was certain I was making contact on the tabs in the boots when testing. I even "scratched" them with my leads to insure good contact.

    If I read everything correctly between the documentation and your response... The stator provides rotation signal (yellow wire) to the CDI. CDI then provides 9v to hall effect. Hall effect sends signal for timing of spark activation back to the CDI. Which then sends the 70v (wow didn't think it would be that high) to the coil connections for spark to both plugs, as this is a wasted spark setup.

    Am I following correctly? If so, then it would seem the yellow wire IS providing rotation signal. Because the CDI box is moving to the next step of supplying 9v to the Hall Effect Sensor. So that means my LR Module might be failing as it is not providing switched 12v during cranking.

    But that is a secondary issue as it shouldn't effect my no spark issue as the CDI box is powered constantly (no service bulletin change). Moving on through the next steps to spark is my hall effect sensor. Without doing the separate test for it I can't rule it as being good. But if I am getting SOME voltage at the black/white coil wires that would lead me to think it is functioning and the CDI is attempting to send voltage to the coil to fire? Maybe the multi-meter can't read/report the 70v spike due to its short duration and quickness which is why I saw the readings I did?

  4. #4
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    A new bit of info I just found while doing a few tests on my lunch break. Apparently my yellow wire from the LR module has 12v from the battery going to it. Is that right? With that connected I was able to get a 12v reading between ground tabs in Ebox and the engine block. Wouldn’t that cause a short?

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderteen View Post
    A new bit of info I just found while doing a few tests on my lunch break. Apparently my yellow wire from the LR module has 12v from the battery going to it. Is that right?

    With that connected I was able to get a 12v reading between ground tabs in Ebox and the engine block. Wouldn’t that cause a short?
    Yellow wires should have full battery voltage when the engine is not running.

    12 volts between engine case and electrical box ‘ground’ means the electrical box is not actually grounded. Or part of it is not grounded.

    Disconnect the battery.
    Now use your ohm meter to measure ohms between engine case and each black wire and ground in the electrical box. Every ground point and black wire should measure zero ohms to the engine.

    The only wire that actually connects the engine case to the electrical box is the thin black wire that comes from the magneto stator. That thin black wire is part of the stator cable wire bundle. If the wire is broken, burned up, or just not connected inside the electrical box, you will not have actual ground.

  6. #6
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    I will check E-Box grounds later today on my lunch break. From what I was told on this skis history is the guys son (no idea age or level of knowledge) had attempted to troubleshoot the faulty starter solenoid himself. Who knows what was tinkered with during that process.

  7. #7
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    I had a few minutes to check grounds on lunch. I removed the battery and disconnected each black spade connector and ring terminals. Then checked each one against block case for continuity. The black wire from the stator had 0.03-0.04 ohms. I then checked the others which all showed open. I figured they would due to the black stator wire supplying the only ground for the E-Box. If I am wrong on that assumption let me know.

    I am going to look deeper into it tonight once I get off work.

  8. #8
    casey67's Avatar
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    Was the stator ground wire bolted to the steel bracket that the ground spades connect to ?
    Pretty sure the coil and CDI will also have eyelets that bolt down with stator wire.

  9. #9
    raiderteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey67 View Post
    Was the stator ground wire bolted to the steel bracket that the ground spades connect to ?
    Pretty sure the coil and CDI will also have eyelets that bolt down with stator wire.
    I got everything hooked back up and the ring connections from cdi and stator clamped to the ground bracket. Hooked battery back up and ground was acting normal. No 12v from the grounds. I then unhooked the stator 8pin connection and checked grounds again and of course I had 12v at that point. So I had just messed up and forgot to reconnect the 8pin connector when I was doing that ground check yesterday.

    Anyways so after sorting that out I started looking further into the ignition coil readings. I get very close to spec on the primary side. About 0.4ohms. On the secondary side I couldn’t get any readings between the plug wires. I then removed the plug wires and checked the terminals at the coil. I got a decently higher then spec reading. I believe spec calls for around 2500ohm and I was well in the 3xxx ohm range. But atleast I was getting a reading. I then checked each plug wire. The short wire was within a few hundred of spec. The long wire I got no reading. So it appears this wire has a break or is internally damaged.

    I then took a spare plug wire off a yamaha I had laying around to try and test the coil again and still didn’t get spark. I believe the damage was already done and the coil itself is bad as well. Most likely due to the failed plug wire not allowing the coil ever to discharge and burning itself up.

    I also went ahead and checked my primary coil wires from the cdi. I actually get roughly 50-100v or so between them during cranking. At this point I believe the cdi is functioning correctly and the coil and plug wire are my failure points. I have replacements on the way and will see what happens when they arrive.

  10. #10
    casey67's Avatar
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    I agree, time to plug in a coil and plug wire.

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