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  1. #1
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    Why almost every 40 wieght oil is better than BRP XPS "Summer Blend"

    I love the educational opportunities of an oil thread. There is the real world and there is the laboratory of minutiae and opinion.
    BRP recommends their summer blend 5W-40 for 4Tec engines. It used to be 10W, but I don't know why they changed especially since our skis never see temps cool enough to need a 5W. At least now, they put the weight on the bottle. They still don't say if it is JASO MA or MA2 certified. They do list it is as being safe for wet clutches.

    The reason that it is inferior to other oils, at least in the lab is that it is API SM certified. Just like with most things from the EPA, the latest API certs are usually a compromise of lubrication vs environmental concerns. Any oil that is SM/N will be of lower quality in our machines than SL or SJ. Its all about the phosphorus and zinc in the additive packages. ZDDP protects bearings and decreases wear, but the European Union wanted the levels decreased and Rotax being Austrian conformed with a lower quality oil.

    SN only allows a max of 800 parts per million of zinc/phos and SL/SJ allows 1400 ppm. That is why most motorcycle oil will be SL or SJ rather than SN. As I have written in other oil threads, almost any 40 wt oil that doesn't state that it is "energy conserving" in the API starburst and is MA certified will work just fine. Yes, that certainly includes full synthetics that BRP clearly states with a notice as never to use with SC equipped engines. That is total nonsense as synthetics are no "slicker" than mineral based oils. Almost every synthetic motorcycle oil is MA certified for wet clutches. Its simply wrong of BRP to tell you that you can only use their semi syn or a mineral based alternative oil. This must be a bit of covering their butts and the pre 08 SC washer failures. Lawyers shouldn't write shop manuals.

    All this being said, if you want to use XPS 5W-40, do so and support your local dealer or the GH website. You will be missing the very best lubrication and protection for your engine, but you most likely will never know it. I also want to add that my favorite oil (Rotella T6 5w-40) no longer has a gasoline API rating. Shell did not want to lower the zinc....again to conform to the EU, so it dropped the API rating other than the CJ-4 diesel rating. As crazy as it sounds, you may want to avoid Rotella and use one of the many fine motorcycle oils that have an API gas rating to avoid any warranty issues with BRP.


  2. #2
    its funny you write this post as I’ve spent hours over the last few days researching this out for myself.

    The thing is you stated the sn rating requires less then 800ppm zddp, which is correct. But this move was to prevent pre mature catalytic converter failure.

    sl oils allowed 1000 ppm zddp.

    The VOA for rotella t6 5w40 CK-4 is between 1100 and 1200 ppm zddp this oil does not carry the API sn designation because it’s over 800 ppm. Here is a good read

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0803...rn-engine-oil/

    Also for the real sticklers out there shell rotella t6 5w40 states it is jaso ma approved along with claims from Amsoil yet when you go to JASO certification page they are not listed ... bel ray is on this list to name another reputable company.

    Back of shell t6 5w50 bottle
    “...API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31...”https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...f/t6-5w-40.pdf

    Numerous sources state you won’t have an issue running a ck-4 oil in a gas engine as long as there is no catalytic converter.

    I personally use rotella t6 5w40 in 2 skis and 2 race bikes knock wood haven’t had any issues (highly doubt I will) at least not from this

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  4. #3

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    I am going to miss these oil threads when electric takes over...

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  6. #4
    Nah. Then we will have fusion reactor gas threads because that's the only way the energy density will ever be there.

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  8. #5
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    Thanks for the links, good info.
    My source shows the SL rating is spec 1000 - 1400 ppm, not 1000 max.

    The reason that I brought up Rotella was Shell dropping the API gas rating. I wanted to disclose that because BRP specifies a SL, SJ, SM or SN MA MA2 rated oil. Rotella T6 does not fit that requirement due to Shell's decision to remove the API gas rating rather than the quality of the additive package.

    The purpose of this thread was to show that there are many oil out there that will do a better job at lubricating our engines at a lower cost than XPS 5W-40. I also provided the numbers and an explanation as to why the oils are better and not just my opinions.

  9. #6
    ncdoo's Avatar
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    Oh no Mr. Bill! Not another oil thread...

  10. #7
    There is definitely conflicting data.... I own a 2017 6.7 powerstroke and from what I was reading Ford didn’t have their approval on the CK-4/SM dual rated oil due to the fact that the ZDDP didnt have a high enough ppm, wondering if this was a contributing factor to dropping the gas rating

  11. #8
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncdoo View Post
    Oh no Mr. Bill! Not another oil thread...
    Come on NC, its not an oil thread. Its a value thread! You know, better product for less money. The product just happens to be oil.

  12. #9
    Does "Bob is the Oil Guy" have a PWC forum? Those guys are lubrication crazy!!!

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  14. #10
    Team Bilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guybb3 View Post
    Does "Bob is the Oil Guy" have a PWC forum? Those guys are lubrication crazy!!!
    I see PWC questions on BITOG sometimes. There are several really knowledgeable energy folks on that site. But like most oil threads, sometimes less correct statements will be posted. Those posts do seem to get corrected pretty quickly on BITOG.

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