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  1. #41
    It is the same pole as the Wake Pro 230, the 155 has a different setup

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    Me and a couple of other guys told you earlier that the pole would never hold up and you didn't listen. Once that dickhead SEICIKsuc started ranting, I said to myself, I will just wait until it breaks again, which is going to happen. So here we are.

    Here is the problem; BRP is thinking of some weekend-wally type double skiing when they are taking the position that the wimpy-ass pole would be OK. Nobody skis slalom anymore (I am 60, slalom went out of fashion maybe 15 years ago). So those guys at BRP cannot envision the type of stress that slalom places on the pole. It is several hundred pounds, for those that don't know about slalom. A retractable pole will never take that stress. The pole on my Malibu is solid aluminum.

    Oh, and by the way, slalom places about double the stress over wakeboarding.
    I wish I had the BRP response because that is not the angle they took from the quick read I got but your right I do not think they know much about slalom skiing or any tow sport for that matter. I agree a lot of people are spending $125,000 or more on some wakeboard boat and most of them can’t do anything behind it so there are not as many skiers but Slalom skiing is still very much alive my daughter just graduated from Wisconsin and she was on the water ski team for 4 years. They travelled all over the Midwest competing there was no shortage of competition. By the way she loves skiing behind the GTX but she is only about 125 lbs. looks like I just may have to stick to the back tow hook, the other option is to fasten the ski pylon in the down position.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    I have to agree with Sea Dood, I can feel a skier or wakeboarder on my Tige. I can only imagine how bad the ski is yanked around.
    The GTX does very well (yes it gets yanked around but so does a boat) it’s the pylon that is the problem.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Bilford View Post
    Is the pylon that you are using different from the Wake Pro models?
    Same as the 230 Wake Pro different from the 155 Wake Pro

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    Me and a couple of other guys told you earlier that the pole would never hold up and you didn't listen. Once that dickhead SEICIKsuc started ranting, I said to myself, I will just wait until it breaks again, which is going to happen. So here we are.

    Here is the problem; BRP is thinking of some weekend-wally type double skiing when they are taking the position that the wimpy-ass pole would be OK. Nobody skis slalom anymore (I am 60, slalom went out of fashion maybe 15 years ago). So those guys at BRP cannot envision the type of stress that slalom places on the pole. It is several hundred pounds, for those that don't know about slalom. A retractable pole will never take that stress. The pole on my Malibu is solid aluminum.

    Oh, and by the way, slalom places about double the stress over wakeboarding.
    Slow clap for the Troll emerging yet again folks!
    Let's go to the play by play breakdown!

    "Me and a couple of other guys told you earlier that the pole would never hold up and you didn't listen. "
    No, you admitted to having zero experience with the product and bitched out the OP for even trying to ski behind jetski that has previously mentioned part designed for skiing off of it with.
    Some other shmuck then also said he had zero experience but had to agree with you, and that nothing compares to a professional tow boat.
    You then shit your pants over being called out for not being helpful or relevant to the OP's questions.

    "Once that dickhead SEICIKsuc started ranting, I said to myself, I will just wait until it breaks again, which is going to happen. So here we are."
    I get it, you bring zero relevance to the conversation, argue points that no one is contesting, and overall just vomit your opinion on the thread...
    I call you out for it, and offer actual experience with the product and I am "Ranting dickhead".
    You talk to yourself about internet posts, and your assumption was correct. - Got it - Here's a cookie.
    Keep in mind that it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be happening, and it's not happening to other people...
    *** And yes we know, PRO TOW BOATS ARE THE BEES KNEES! ***

    "Here is the problem; BRP is thinking of some weekend-wally type double skiing when they are taking the position that the wimpy-ass pole would be OK."
    Meh, the engineers behind BRP are not total morons. Lot's of people on this forum are skiing slalom or even tubing from the poll without it breaking...
    Clearly it's holding up for them, and yes watching the OP's video's he's ripping it up, but again I can't imagine this is specific failure due to his skill level and his ability to place unequaled pressure on things.
    Ultimately, competition pro-slalom skiers are going to exceed what he is doing, and tubing and wake-boarding will also create more extreme stress peaks.
    You can't possibly think that BRP is not considering liability and "engineering" something with zero data behind it.
    Is their disti, short changing components from their design with lower quality ASIA-PAC manufactures who have cut corners? Yea maybe... but lets be real, this isn't BRP mailing it in, or it would be happening everywhere all the time to everyone who uses the thing for anything other than towing a fly-weight on pontoons.
    *** for the record, yes I know it's not as super hard, super cool, or super aluminum as the pole sticking out of your Malibu... no one is arguing that... your Malibu is the best... have another cookie. ***

    "Nobody skis slalom anymore (I am 60, slalom went out of fashion maybe 15 years ago)."
    Is this serious? Not the you being 60 part, that was clear from day 1, when you were waving around your newspaper and yelling at us to get off your lawn...
    Slalom is still pretty widespread and well respected as a serious tow sport.

    "So those guys at BRP cannot envision the type of stress that slalom places on the pole."
    Again we touched on this earlier... I don't think your assumptions here are correct by any means.
    They are engineers, who build structural supports, specifically for tow sports, via their brands pwc.
    Not being able to envision the type of stress caused by the exact thing they are designing supports for... Well it just sounds ridiculous.

    "It is several hundred pounds, for those that don't know about slalom."
    So your take is that, BRP structural engineers cannot possibly envision the type of stress....
    And also you clearly have no idea besides it's a generic amount of ball-parked number stress!
    (What it actually should be closest to, is detailed out shortly.)

    "A retractable pole will never take that stress."
    And yet so many people still use them without them breaking...
    and so many people use them to pull tubes and other things like wake boards both of which will or potentially can depending on tube design create much more stress (but we will get to that in a moment).
    and the ones that have broken so far are being replaced for free, because they shouldn't be breaking like so many others that HAVEN'T broken before.

    "The pole on my Malibu is solid aluminum."
    We know We know... your dildo is solid aluminum...
    ** Sorry, your Malibu Pole rather... **

    "Oh, and by the way, slalom places about double the stress over wakeboarding."
    Seriously? You clearly don't understand physics.

    100% of the time, during normal pulls the rope loads generated during an in water start will be the peak that is ever placed on the pole.
    That goes for Seadoo shitstick or Throbbing Hard Malibu Solid Aluminium.
    You can check the attachment for data supporting that.
    For reference, this is from the "Water Skiing Biomechanics - A study of intermediate skiers"
    for shits and giggles - and I quote... from fucking scientists:
    "Average rope loads for double ski starts were 1.48 and 1.62 times body weight for the Fastback/tapered and double tapered starts respectively. Average rope loads during slalom starts were 1.8 times body weight when using the Fastback and 1.97 times body weight when using a tapered slalom ski."
    for more shits and more giggles here is more data attached...

    The increased forces applied via a water start all come down to hydrodynamic drag.
    The Surface area of a Wakeboard (especially when plowing sideways during a start) and the weight of the board itself is much greater than a slalom ski...
    Increased weight and Increased surface area = INCREASED HYDRODYNAMIC DRAG with a wakeboard during a water start...
    Who'dathunk it! Science!

    Check the data, do some research, get some experience with this particular item/topic and then add to the conversation instead of being a dick.
    I won't hold my breath waiting for another insanely off axis reply. You have already proven your inability to use logic, or research based facts.
    Chess... Pigeon... I digress...


    The TLDR Bottom line Version?
    The pole shouldn't be breaking, but after reading some of your other posts it's not the pole itself but the plastic retainer in between the poles that seems to be breaking?
    I am wondering if somewhere along the manufacturing chain, i.e. component manufactures in SE Asia are cheaping out and thats the failure point.
    BRP might not even know as this might be a specific run, or specific supplier only. If it's only affecting a small enough grouping of folks, some of which are guilty of dragging tubes and so on as they are NOT supposed to, their knee jerk would be "This dude is doing SOMETHING wrong".

    I second the idea of filming your runs. Gopro on handlebar mount. I might even have an extra seat post clamp or rollcage clamp that would work for you.
    It would be annoying but if you broke it in 12 runs, brand new, than it shouldn't' be too many reps.
    I would also tell the local dealers that you plan to do that to prove it out and see what they think about it.

    Few questions, are you always breaking it at the same time/situation? IE - in water startup?
    That is the peak force you would be applying to the rope/ski.
    Do you have pictures of the breakage? Showing them consistently failed parts may prompt them to look deeper into it.
    You may have said this already, I don't remember but how much do you weigh?
    Don't underestimate the power of a social group...
    It may behoove them to know that you are backed by a large community of fellow enthusiasts who are eager to know why this keeps happening.
    I would call them directly, open tickets with them and keep sharing the info.
    I am curious as to why no one else seems to be having this issue. It's just wacky.

    In all the data in the study referenced above the MAX anyone achieved - was 2.45 x body weight (well over the average of 1.97 on slalom)
    Based on the instructions the part it is for a max of 250lb's riders.
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  6. #46
    I weigh about 195 lbs. The pole broke both times when I was doing a water start.

    I do wear ski gloves (the kind that have a strap going from your middle two fingers to your wrist with a small dowel at the finger tips) these gloves helps prevent your hands from fatigue while holding the handle.

    I’m surprised to see data showing that getting out of the water puts the most force on the pole, I know how to get out of the water pretty quickly and for me cutting is the hardest part I accelerate all the way across the Wake so the force on the pole is over a longer amount of time when compared to getting out of the water.

    Im thinking that the pole is breaking not from a one time force but repeated stress over an extended period of time.

    Not sure how much skiing I will get in before the season end, weather was lousy and only skied once this weekend (used the tow hook not the pylon it’s still in the box). Next weekend will be my last chance before I put stuff away.

    I asked the dealer to send me the response from BRP is was fairly extensive and I only got a brief view of it but I have not heard back from the dealer yet on that.

  7. #47
    HaHa, I was waiting for that dickhead SIECIKsuc to respond in a rant, and he really exceeded my expectations! (I can almost see his neck veins bulging when he wrote his rant.)

    The especially laughable part of the rant is this paragraph:

    "The increased forces applied via a water start all come down to hydrodynamic drag.
    The Surface area of a Wakeboard (especially when plowing sideways during a start) and the weight of the board itself is much greater than a slalom ski...
    Increased weight and Increased surface area = INCREASED HYDRODYNAMIC DRAG with a wakeboard during a water start... "

    SIECIKsuc obviously has never pulled a wakeboarder, or he would have known that they pop out of the water quite easily, with far LESS drag than a slalom skier. This is because you have far more surface area on a wakeboard, so it gets up on plane far easier and with less drag.

    (I can almost see SIECIKsuc's neck veins bulging as he reads this, going "damn, he is right!!!: LOL)

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cochrane View Post
    I weigh about 195 lbs. The pole broke both times when I was doing a water start.

    I do wear ski gloves (the kind that have a strap going from your middle two fingers to your wrist with a small dowel at the finger tips) these gloves helps prevent your hands from fatigue while holding the handle.

    I’m surprised to see data showing that getting out of the water puts the most force on the pole, I know how to get out of the water pretty quickly and for me cutting is the hardest part I accelerate all the way across the Wake so the force on the pole is over a longer amount of time when compared to getting out of the water.

    Im thinking that the pole is breaking not from a one time force but repeated stress over an extended period of time.

    Not sure how much skiing I will get in before the season end, weather was lousy and only skied once this weekend (used the tow hook not the pylon it’s still in the box). Next weekend will be my last chance before I put stuff away.

    I asked the dealer to send me the response from BRP is was fairly extensive and I only got a brief view of it but I have not heard back from the dealer yet on that.
    When I saw the photo you posted, I could tell that you were a good skier, good cross-wake form. Let's see, you probably can run the buoys at 20 off? SIECIKsuc's data is dubious at best, he references "intermediate skier", don't know where he got the data, but as you know, running an intermediate loping along at full rope length vs someone capable of 20-25 off is a totally different game. As you noted earlier, at those levels running a tournament boat at consistent speed without perfect pass is difficult due to the extreme pull. I am thinking, as you seem to be thinking, that the repeated pulls are weakening the pole, your water starts are just finishing it off.

    Where is the pole breaking? Do you see metal fatigue at that spot?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    When I saw the photo you posted, I could tell that you were a good skier, good cross-wake form. Let's see, you probably can run the buoys at 20 off? SIECIKsuc's data is dubious at best, he references "intermediate skier", don't know where he got the data, but as you know, running an intermediate loping along at full rope length vs someone capable of 20-25 off is a totally different game. As you noted earlier, at those levels running a tournament boat at consistent speed without perfect pass is difficult due to the extreme pull. I am thinking, as you seem to be thinking, that the repeated pulls are weakening the pole, your water starts are just finishing it off.

    Where is the pole breaking? Do you see metal fatigue at that spot?
    Yes, I believe the pole is breaking as a result of fatigue from repeated pulls. The pole is breaking by splitting the plastic (on both sides) along the entire length of the highest extended section. The extended part is a metal core surrounded by some sort of thick plastic. As a result the section is no longer secure in the pylon. I started checking the second pylon periodically for signs of fatigue and did not see any problems initially but as time went on I stopped looking at it and just skied on it until it broke.
    Last edited by Cochrane; 08-26-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    HaHa, I was waiting for that dickhead SIECIKsuc to respond in a rant, and he really exceeded my expectations! (I can almost see his neck veins bulging when he wrote his rant.)

    The especially laughable part of the rant is this paragraph:

    "The increased forces applied via a water start all come down to hydrodynamic drag.
    The Surface area of a Wakeboard (especially when plowing sideways during a start) and the weight of the board itself is much greater than a slalom ski...
    Increased weight and Increased surface area = INCREASED HYDRODYNAMIC DRAG with a wakeboard during a water start... "

    SIECIKsuc obviously has never pulled a wakeboarder, or he would have known that they pop out of the water quite easily, with far LESS drag than a slalom skier. This is because you have far more surface area on a wakeboard, so it gets up on plane far easier and with less drag.

    (I can almost see SIECIKsuc's neck veins bulging as he reads this, going "damn, he is right!!!: LOL)

    Hahah dude, come on now... I don't get upset at stupid people. It's weird that you are trying to picture me, and basically fantasizing about my bulging veins.
    It's really creepy that you are reading a discussion on the internet and trying to picture the human on the other end and getting off to the idea that you are getting them angry.
    Who hurt you?

    Besides being super obsessed with "bulging" and your super hard unbreakable aluminum ski pole...
    You clearly don't understand physics... and your understanding Hydrodynamic drag is nonexistent.

    Form Drag - which is the most important factor, it directly relates to the shape of the object. (You do understand the difference in shapes right?)
    Skin Friction - a lesser extent but again more surface area = more drag not less.
    The shape of a sideways wakeboard places more stress on the line in order to pull the same person out of the water than the shape of a skinny slalom ski.
    We can get into depth on mitigating factors like the reduced drag of the same(equal per the rider on both being the same) but you really just don't seem to get any of the basics of it anyway.

    You do have far more surface area on a wakeboard.
    Getting on plane and creating hydrodynamic lift is relative to speed.
    The speed required to get on plane has nothing to do with the initial deep water start line tension that creates the PEAK of the force upon the line...
    What you are saying about lift is somewhat correct in its own assbackwards way, but it's not actual relative to the actual problem here at all.

    I am honestly starting to think it's a reading comprehension problem at this point.

    Oh and since you seem to assume I don't have any experience in the matter, even after making reference to using the item in question (which again you have not).
    I would like you you know, I have been a slalom skier since I was 8 years old, been Waking boarding since I was about 14 or 15...
    I have pulled Skis, Slalom, Wakeboarders, Wake Surfers, Tubes, Kites, and even old bitter men like you on everything from a two up jet ski, to a pro-level tow boat, in salt/fresh/brackish water.

    Just because I don't belittle people who don't have access to pro tow boats because I am not an elitist shitbrick like you, and I also use science and actual factual information to argue a point, again unlike you, doesn't mean I am clueless.
    I also don't get upset about it. You seem to think that typing out a thorough explanation means someone is ranting. That's likely a byproduct of your own shortcomings, but it doesn't mean I am angry, or ranting, it's just what intelligent people do. When they disagree about things, they put words together and form complete thoughts in sentences and link them together to form paragraphs and articulate their point. Sometimes we use CAPITALS to place emphasis on things, but we aren't actually yelling at you though our computer screen buddy... I know it's hard to fathom, but this could have been an interesting conversation had you not started off by being a dipshit, then continued to be a dipshit throughout the entirety of it.

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