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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by FL_Rider View Post
    The front seal looks like its oriented correctly. It looks like your bearing tabs and labyrinth seal tabs are in the notches. Its looking good.

    Before you follow through with assembly, did you check your oil check valves?
    I sprayed carb cleaner through them. First in the direction the oil flows and it sprayed through. Then in the opposite direction and it did not flow through. So it appears the check valves are working properly.

  2. #682

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    Quote Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
    I am getting there. I assume I should use loctite on the coupler and magneto bolt. Is blue ok or should I use red? How should I torque them down? I don't have the special tools. How tight should they be torqued to?
    90-94 ft/lbs for both the coupler and the flywheel bolt. Blue threadlocker. You will need the coupler tool to torque it. Make a plywood holder like in my pics.

    If your manual is incomplete, get the one for the ultra 150. It has all the torque specs and detailed instructions.

  3. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
    I sprayed carb cleaner through them. First in the direction the oil flows and it sprayed through. Then in the opposite direction and it did not flow through. So it appears the check valves are working properly.
    good news on the check valves

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by FL_Rider View Post
    90-94 ft/lbs for both the coupler and the flywheel bolt. Blue threadlocker. You will need the coupler tool to torque it. Make a plywood holder like in my pics.

    If your manual is incomplete, get the one for the ultra 150. It has all the torque specs and detailed instructions.
    I might have missed it in the manual I have. PWC Engines said I could torque them down without any special tools. He said the tools are only needed to remove them. Your plywood trick seems interesting but I was hoping for something simpler. Like using a pry bar to hold the coupler while I torque the the other side.

  5. #685

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    Quote Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
    You were right of course turbo man. Cylinder 3 piston is shot again! I knew the risk and I accept the results.

    I'm gonna finish getting the motor out tonight. I'll try to split the case tomorrow. I imagine I'll be buying a refurb crank or sending mine out to be rebuilt?

    I'm thinking the root cause could also have been maybe a leaking base gasket making it lean, or maybe a head gasket leaking water in and washing away the lubrication. Was the piston wear all the way around the piston, or just on the exhaust side? Check the mating surfaces real good for the cylinder, crankcase, and heads. Maybe do a test fit of the head on the cylinder to make sure it fits right on easy with no binding around the dowel pins. And of course check for flatness.
    Also, maybe it could have been a clogged water passage in the head. You can stick a zip tie into the passages to see if all is clear. It will flex and snake out hidden debris. Also, check the water manifold for clogs.
    Then, when you get it assembled you will have to fabricate block off plates and pressure test the assembled engine.
    I made mine out of plywood and rubber sheet for the exhaust block off and steel plates for the intake manifold block offs, although plywood will work for the intake block offs as well.
    You'll have to pressure test the cooling side of the engine and the crankcase side.

    You will conquer this. And you will have an awesome ski when you're done.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by FL_Rider View Post
    I'm thinking the root cause could also have been maybe a leaking base gasket making it lean, or maybe a head gasket leaking water in and washing away the lubrication. Was the piston wear all the way around the piston, or just on the exhaust side? Check the mating surfaces real good for the cylinder, crankcase, and heads. Maybe do a test fit of the head on the cylinder to make sure it fits right on easy with no binding around the dowel pins. And of course check for flatness.
    Also, maybe it could have been a clogged water passage in the head. You can stick a zip tie into the passages to see if all is clear. It will flex and snake out hidden debris. Also, check the water manifold for clogs.
    Then, when you get it assembled you will have to fabricate block off plates and pressure test the assembled engine.
    I made mine out of plywood and rubber sheet for the exhaust block off and steel plates for the intake manifold block offs, although plywood will work for the intake block offs as well.
    You'll have to pressure test the cooling side of the engine and the crankcase side.

    You will conquer this. And you will have an awesome ski when you're done.
    I am 99.9% positive my issue was a lean condition. Both times the damage to the piston was only on the exhaust side. I had replaced all the gaskets when I replaced the Piston the first time it failed. I've also installed a triple pisser kit so I know it is not a cooling issue. I've also checked the temperature with my hand of all three cylinders every time I've ridden it after a few minutes and the cylinders are all the same temperature at least in terms of feel. After all I have done I am almost positive my issue was the fuel pump. Or a combination of a bad crank seal and the fuel pump. I haven't found any signs of anything else being wrong.

    You are correct I probably should do a leak down test before running the motor. I will look into that.

    Edit: I know this thread has become very long but if you read it all I think you will see why I believe the fuel pump was my issue. That is the only part I have found that seemed to be obviously bad. Since it appears my issue is a very lean condition and there are signs the pump was bad it seems to make the most sense. The other obvious sign is that I was never able to bleed the reserve line. I had replaced all the fuel lines and it took a while for the main line to bleed the air out before it would not stall. once that was finally clear I kept trying to bleed the air out of the reserve line and it was never able to. I have since checked everything in the fuel system and there is no reason why the reserve line wouldn't bleed. Other than the fuel pump being too weak to bleed it on its own.

  7. #687

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    Quote Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
    I might have missed it in the manual I have. PWC Engines said I could torque them down without any special tools. He said the tools are only needed to remove them. Your plywood trick seems interesting but I was hoping for something simpler. Like using a pry bar to hold the coupler while I torque the the other side.
    Its very difficult to torque it without a means of holding the engine in place firmly. It tends to move around and you won't get clean leverage. A pry bar in the coupler could damage the coupler, but if you're willing to gamble, it might work to hold the coupler while you torque the flywheel bolt. Even then, you're still faced with the problem of tightening the coupler. There would be no way of confirming your torque specs by applying the torque to the flywheel side.
    Others have put rope in the spark plug hole to lock the engine, but I wouldn't take a chance on leaving a piece of the rope in there unknowingly or point loading your new piston. Likewise, blocking the crank from turning by inserting something into the intake openings is a good way to crack the crankcase or gouge it up.
    The coupler tool was about $75. Its just a drive coupler that has a plate attached to it with a square opening the size of a 1/2" drive. If you could get a used coupler, maybe you could fabricate the plate? Or, you could fabricate a piece of plywood with a spiral saw to fit the coupler, then attach a steel plate with a square opening to the plywood?


  8. #688

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    Quote Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
    I am 99.9% positive my issue was a lean condition. Both times the damage to the piston was only on the exhaust side. I had replaced all the gaskets when I replaced the Piston the first time it failed. I've also installed a triple pisser kit so I know it is not a cooling issue. I've also checked the temperature with my hand of all three cylinders every time I've ridden it after a few minutes and the cylinders are all the same temperature at least in terms of feel. After all I have done I am almost positive my issue was the fuel pump. Or a combination of a bad crank seal and the fuel pump. I haven't found any signs of anything else being wrong.

    You are correct I probably should do a leak down test before running the motor. I will look into that.

    Edit: I know this thread has become very long but if you read it all I think you will see why I believe the fuel pump was my issue. That is the only part I have found that seemed to be obviously bad. Since it appears my issue is a very lean condition and there are signs the pump was bad it seems to make the most sense. The other obvious sign is that I was never able to bleed the reserve line. I had replaced all the fuel lines and it took a while for the main line to bleed the air out before it would not stall. once that was finally clear I kept trying to bleed the air out of the reserve line and it was never able to. I have since checked everything in the fuel system and there is no reason why the reserve line wouldn't bleed. Other than the fuel pump being too weak to bleed it on its own.
    I read it all and feel your pain. That is why I am throwing ideas out there, so you can check all the possibilities. I went through a similar thing on my sea doo's last engine. I thought it was a lean issue and I turned the ski inside out and backwards chasing it. It turned out to be a warped head. The pressure test on the assembled engine revealed it. I got a used head that was flat and have had no problems since then.
    It could very well have been a lean issue on yours, but maybe not. I'd hate for it to burn a cylinder again. I want to find out how the rest of your impeller testing goes.
    I

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by FL_Rider View Post
    Its very difficult to torque it without a means of holding the engine in place firmly. It tends to move around and you won't get clean leverage. A pry bar in the coupler could damage the coupler, but if you're willing to gamble, it might work to hold the coupler while you torque the flywheel bolt. Even then, you're still faced with the problem of tightening the coupler. There would be no way of confirming your torque specs by applying the torque to the flywheel side.
    Others have put rope in the spark plug hole to lock the engine, but I wouldn't take a chance on leaving a piece of the rope in there unknowingly or point loading your new piston. Likewise, blocking the crank from turning by inserting something into the intake openings is a good way to crack the crankcase or gouge it up.
    The coupler tool was about $75. Its just a drive coupler that has a plate attached to it with a square opening the size of a 1/2" drive. If you could get a used coupler, maybe you could fabricate the plate? Or, you could fabricate a piece of plywood with a spiral saw to fit the coupler, then attach a steel plate with a square opening to the plywood?
    I really appreciate your help. This is the reason why I wanted PWC engines to reinstall these components for me. They told me they would and they did not. I understand most shops that work on jet skis would have these tools. Unfortunately I do not. Which is why I had emailed and talk to them before I sent them my crank and they told me they would reassemble everything for me. Now here I am trying to figure out a solution to something I shouldn't have to deal with.
    The two remaining pistons I need to finish the motor have not arrived yet. I am thinking about bringing the crank to work on Monday to see if I can figure something out there. I work for a Honda car dealer. One of the mechanics might be able to come up with a solution.

  10. #690

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    Ok, best of luck with it. If you decide to get the coupler tool. Its part# 57001-1423. The plywood flywheel holder requires a 2&1/4" hole saw, 1/4" drill bit, and ( 25mm long bolts and washers to screw it on to the front gear.

    edit: the emoji is suppose to be an 8 with parenthesis around it. That showed up by itself.

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