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  1. #1
    cyrillefrenchy's Avatar
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    2012 vxr no spark no fuel injction

    Hello guys
    i cant find why a 2012 vxr 1800 that someone brought to my little shop complaining about no start after sitting on lift for 2 weeks. i first replaced the battery as it was weak, then engine turned over fine but still no start, checked for spark ( good solid blue spark) then fuel flow and pressure, plenty of fuel to the ram. then checked for signal to the injectors and : good solid 12v on pink and yellow wire but no ground ( ground is triggered by the ecu, right?) next i went to the ecu plugs to inspect, found nothing wrong, no sign of corrosion. i went next to the throttle system as i know if throttle body is open while starting the ecu will cut fuel injection. i also checked output peak voltage coming out of pick up coil, i found 4.75 volts ( should be 4.7 to 5.5 according to the service manual ) so i am a little low but still within range . i connected the candoo diag system and found all voltages on tps1 and 2 all good . i had at the same time at the shop a 2010 fxho 1.8 so i swapped the 2 throttle bodies, same problem . then i thought the ecu was bad, i tried the ecu from the fx, same problem, still no fuel injection. i installed my vx ecu on the fx and fx started right up so obviously my vx ecu is good , the only thing that did not work properly was the dashboard ( different configuration) . then i tried to install the fx harness on my vx, all plugs matched except dashboard, still the problem!. i also tried 2 good known different entry boxes with paired remotes, still no fuel injection and now no more spark neither it is getting worst and worst . i tried with stop switch disconnected,i even looked if the white wire coming out of the ecu was grounded as it is the stop wire : all open circuit, not grounded at all. i also tried 4 coil and 4 injectors thinking maybe one of these is really bad and shortening the system and putting ecu at fault , still the same.i also checked for continuity to the injectors and coils wires from one end to the other, 0 ohm resistance on all of em, i also checked and replaced the ground plate on rear right side of the block, all good but no progress. Then i called the owner and asked again some details about what happened as i could not find anything wrong at that time, then he told be some mechanic replaced the stator assembly and pick up coil but it did not fix the problem that why he brought it to me..then he gave me the mechanic #, i called him and told me he replaced the stator because the ski was brought first to the dealer who diagnosed a bad pick up coil but repair was too expensive so he did it for cheaper, he swear he used an oem part.
    Then back to the pick up coil peak voltage, and after battery becoming a little lower on voltage and engine not spinning as fast as the first try i found a peak voltage at 3.3 volts and no more spark and still no fuel injection. checked ohmage and it was just a little under low limit but not way out ( dont remember how it was sorry). at this point i decided to pull the engine and found an aftermarket stator with a pick up coil with wired soldered into an insulation sleeve ( will post pics later) then i was happy to find the problem !! i order a new oem stator and installed it, installed the engine back in : now i have super good output voltage at 6 volts + but still no start !! no more spark and no fuel injection!!
    the weired thing is : i can activate fule injectors and coild with my candoo system but still no spark no fuel. i aslo checked continuity of the pick up coil wires from one end to the other, all good.
    i also tried others things that i forgot to tell like good ground the the black wire ( middle one) at the coils, also solid ground the the 2 black solid wires supposed to be the ecu grounds, the ecu is fed properly on 12+ volts. i forgot to say: no engine check light ever.
    At this point i am lost and i dont have the fx to try other parts.
    i also went to the dealer and talked for a while with one of the head tech , explained him all what i just said in this post, he is lost too.
    what do you guys think ?
    thanks for any suggestion


  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrillefrenchy View Post
    Hello guys
    i cant find why a 2012 vxr 1800 that someone brought to my little shop complaining about no start after sitting on lift for 2 weeks. i first replaced the battery as it was weak, then engine turned over fine but still no start, checked for spark ( good solid blue spark) then fuel flow and pressure, plenty of fuel to the ram. then checked for signal to the injectors and : good solid 12v on pink and yellow wire but no ground ( ground is triggered by the ecu, right?) next i went to the ecu plugs to inspect, found nothing wrong, no sign of corrosion. i went next to the throttle system as i know if throttle body is open while starting the ecu will cut fuel injection. i also checked output peak voltage coming out of pick up coil, i found 4.75 volts ( should be 4.7 to 5.5 according to the service manual ) so i am a little low but still within range . i connected the candoo diag system and found all voltages on tps1 and 2 all good . i had at the same time at the shop a 2010 fxho 1.8 so i swapped the 2 throttle bodies, same problem . then i thought the ecu was bad, i tried the ecu from the fx, same problem, still no fuel injection. i installed my vx ecu on the fx and fx started right up so obviously my vx ecu is good , the only thing that did not work properly was the dashboard ( different configuration) . then i tried to install the fx harness on my vx, all plugs matched except dashboard, still the problem!. i also tried 2 good known different entry boxes with paired remotes, still no fuel injection and now no more spark neither it is getting worst and worst . i tried with stop switch disconnected,i even looked if the white wire coming out of the ecu was grounded as it is the stop wire : all open circuit, not grounded at all. i also tried 4 coil and 4 injectors thinking maybe one of these is really bad and shortening the system and putting ecu at fault , still the same.i also checked for continuity to the injectors and coils wires from one end to the other, 0 ohm resistance on all of em, i also checked and replaced the ground plate on rear right side of the block, all good but no progress. Then i called the owner and asked again some details about what happened as i could not find anything wrong at that time, then he told be some mechanic replaced the stator assembly and pick up coil but it did not fix the problem that why he brought it to me..then he gave me the mechanic #, i called him and told me he replaced the stator because the ski was brought first to the dealer who diagnosed a bad pick up coil but repair was too expensive so he did it for cheaper, he swear he used an oem part.
    Then back to the pick up coil peak voltage, and after battery becoming a little lower on voltage and engine not spinning as fast as the first try i found a peak voltage at 3.3 volts and no more spark and still no fuel injection. checked ohmage and it was just a little under low limit but not way out ( dont remember how it was sorry). at this point i decided to pull the engine and found an aftermarket stator with a pick up coil with wired soldered into an insulation sleeve ( will post pics later) then i was happy to find the problem !! i order a new oem stator and installed it, installed the engine back in : now i have super good output voltage at 6 volts + but still no start !! no more spark and no fuel injection!!
    the weired thing is : i can activate fule injectors and coild with my candoo system but still no spark no fuel. i aslo checked continuity of the pick up coil wires from one end to the other, all good.
    i also tried others things that i forgot to tell like good ground the the black wire ( middle one) at the coils, also solid ground the the 2 black solid wires supposed to be the ecu grounds, the ecu is fed properly on 12+ volts. i forgot to say: no engine check light ever.
    At this point i am lost and i dont have the fx to try other parts.
    i also went to the dealer and talked for a while with one of the head tech , explained him all what i just said in this post, he is lost too.
    what do you guys think ?
    thanks for any suggestion
    Hi there,

    I feel for you on this one, you have been over everything sometimes twice. I worked in IT for over 30 years and sometimes you get these probs that just don't show themselves. It's a shame its been to another repairer who fitted an after market Stator, is it possible he has stuffed up something or wired it incorrectly? Strikes me as the problem revolves around this as this part has now been replaced twice, so I feel its in an around that area.
    I am sure one of the other lads who have more knowledge will chip in here and assist.
    Not sure about the gnd triggered by the ECU, sounds backward to me but may be correct.
    Hope you get it sorted and will watch with interest.

    Cheers

    Dave

  3. #3
    TimeBandit's Avatar
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    Frenchy, I know you are very smart on these ski's, so for this one must be a very rare issue. Sounds like you inherited someone else's nest of problem.
    Back to basics sometime helps regroup our thought process - so does a good night's sleep. That said, we all understand the 1.8L (upon initial starting attempt) re-discovers the timing positions every time it is started. The ECU needs to "see" several revolutions on the flywheel pick-up and the cam sensor, and once the ECU sync with the crank position, then and only then will spark and fuel circuits possibly be activated. So due to no spark and FI signal, I would tend to believe the ECU is not able to validate the engine position timing. In your troubleshooting efforts thus far, have you verified the cam position sensor (and connector)? Maybe there was/is an intermittent issue with this sensor, and this mislead / mis-directed the previous mechanic to the stator pick-up (introducing new issues and wrong parts)??

    If you unplug the cam sensor and try to start, does candoo/ecu throw an error code? Or maybe try to move the sensor to your FX to test starting. Also, how did the flywheel physical position (and flywheel key) look?

    Hang in there buddy !

  4. #4
    cyrillefrenchy's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for your suggestions and good words. even with cam sensor disconnected the engine should start , thats what makes me think it is not due to crank/cam synchronization but i could be wrong, to me if it was the key i would have spark, maybe not a the right timing but at least something.
    i am making other tests this morning and if nothing wrong i am going to pull engine back out and check the key, my fault i should have done it when the engine was out, to me the aftermarket stator was the culprit.
    will let you know

  5. #5
    cyrillefrenchy's Avatar
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    and i dont really know when i lost spark during my multiple tests

  6. #6

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    So ski ran with vx ecu? Could previous bad stator replacement have damaged the ecu? Sounds like it has or there is broken wire in loom? Doesn’t texplain why it started with vx ecu? Vx now back together runs fine? could it be as simple as a loose connector or pinched cable?

  7. #7
    THE PLATE MAN JIM'S PERFORMANCE's Avatar
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    I had the same thing about 2 months ago, he had it at another shop could not figure out then brought to me we checked every sensor and ecu and everything checked good we were trying to fix it for a week. Then i decided to pull the motor to check the flywheel thinking maybe it was the flywheel had run out of ideas. Took motor out and looked at flywheel it looked good then put it on top dead center and saw the flywheel was of by about 30 degrees. So then i pulled the flywheel out and saw the key way was broken and flywheel had moved. I was thinking but that is not going to kill spark and injector pulse just throw timing of. So i put a new key way put motor back in thinking i still have not found why i have no pulse and spark and to my surprise the ski started and was running great. I'm not saying that is your problem but might want to check.


  8. #8
    TimeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIM'S PERFORMANCE View Post
    . . . .
    So then i pulled the flywheel out and saw the key way was broken and flywheel had moved. I was thinking but that is not going to kill spark and injector pulse just throw timing of.
    . . . . .
    That's great info/insight on these Yamaha systems.
    I cannot say for sure, as I don't have inside knowledge, nor access to the source-code inside Yamaha's ecu...
    I have written code for embedded systems however. That said, other electronic ignition systems (those that re-discover the timing sequence each and every time it is started) keep the ignition (and FI) systems initially disabled during the starting "discovery" process, and once the ecu is confident it knows the timing - it then activates these systems and it starts. Therefore it would not be a stretch to deduce that a fly-whell being 30 out simply "confused that ecu's expected logic, to the point that it never could get out of the discovery stage - hence no spark, and well, no error codes either.

    Agreed, we are not saying this is Frenchy's problem ski - we're on the fence hoping he'll report back on his customer's fly-wheel status soon.

  9. #9
    curious to know what the culprit was?

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