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  1. #1

    Polaris Freedom no spark

    Good day,
    I see this was a well discussed topic a while back, but I need help please. My water ski is running fine, and then all of a sudden refuse to start after it was shut down. It left me in the ocean twice this week. I though I had the problem sorted with a new and correct size battery, but after about 1 hour the problem re occurred. Left it for a day now and it still has no spark, so not a hot start refusal?

    I found Zero Volts on the Black and white wires coming out of the CDI, which should be the reason for no spark after the coil.
    Done the following tests as per manual, ie
    1. resistance on the stator wires coming from the stator appear to be fine, except I have not done the "hull effect test" yet.
    2. unplugged black and green wires to eliminate handlebar, no effect
    3. unplugged the grey wire, no effect
    4. Did the Serv bulletin with jumper cable on red and purple to orange terminal a year or two back. Tested this wire, it has 12V while cranking only.
    5. Red terminal on pc board has 12 V all the time.
    6. Brown wire from CDI has 8-9 volt while cranking.
    What other tests could be suggested?
    Is my problem the Stator or the CDI? or 505 module? or all three of them?
    My CDI has part number 4010568 written by hand on it.
    Will appreciate any help.
    Regards


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    If you hold down the Bilge button (bilge pump should run) and press Start, do you have spark?

    Put voltmeter on Black wire and Red/Purple wire that directly feed into the CDI module. Note voltage. Press Start and while engine is cranking what is the measured voltage? Rounded to the nearest .1 volts.

    Disconnect the bullet connectors between CDI and stator cable. Measure stator coil ohms. If coils are within specification next check Hall Effect sensor signals. Diagnostic details can be found via my signature links, in the red engine/electrical sections.

  3. #3
    Morning,
    The voltage between the red and purple wire and black while cranking was around 11.3-11.5V while it refused to start.
    This morning, after a 2 full days standing and no intervention it started like a new ski again. Even after washing and flushing the inside and all over the engine, it starts smoothly. I check the charging rate this morning and it is around 13.2 V when revved up? I installed a new battery two days ago.

    I did measure the stator coil wires resistance when the ski refused spark, and it was according to manual, only one I did not measure was "Hall effect". Problem is now it is starting fine and everything would test ok of course? I will have to ride it for an hour again for the problem to re occur!

    This I can only do once returned to the inland (river on farm) since I do not want to be stuck in the ocean again!
    I assume all resistances will be testing ok while the problem is not there?

    You have a lot of experience, what would you say would be the most probable fault to come and go like this?
    The one mistake I would not make again is to think that the fault has rectified itself! I have made this mistake three times now, and after about an hour of running engine refuse to start after you have shut the engine down, with no Volts coming from the CDI to the coil(black and white wires. I understand you should read about 250V on the black and white wires?
    As said, CDI delivered 8-9 v while cranking, but with Zero volts on Black and White? Is that indication that problem lies in the stator and CDI is fine?
    Next check would be Hall effect, but as said I will have to wait for the problem to re appear? I Appreciate your help and advice!
    Regards

  4. #4
    Sorry, forgot to mention, pressing bulge pump while cranking had no effect on spark while problem was there.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Corrosion or moisture anywhere inside electrical box can cause strange symptoms.

    Check back side of terminal board for signs of corrosion.

    The CDI black/white wires to ignition coil pack simply deliver the ignition pulses to fire the ignition coils. No pulses measured (when engine is not starting) just means the CDI is not trying to fire the spark plugs. Why the CDI is not firing the ignition coils remains an open question.

    The Yellow/black wire is ignition kill signal. If the lanyard switch is signalling engine stop (Black/Yellow wire is grounded) then the CDI will not fire.

    Your Freedom also has LR-505 Start/Stop module. Sometimes these can go bad. The LR-505 sits between the handlebar red Start/Stop button and the CDI. The LR-505 actually controls the ignition kill signal.

    You can bypass the LR-505 for testing. I have posted the details elsewhere on GH. When bypassed there will be no battery charging and the red button will start the engine, but only the lanyard pull will stop the engine.

  6. #6
    I have done the LR-505 bypass you are referring to test yesterday, where all wires from module are unplugged and one black wire is connected to black terminal, with no effect. I have done the test where you eliminate the start stop switch as well, with no effect.
    As said, currently I need to wait for the problem to re occur before I can troubleshoot further. What are the symptoms when the stator is giving problems? Will it be coming and going like in this case?
    Regards

  7. #7
    One other thing, my engine crank with both the lynard in and out, is that correct?

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    ... my engine crank with both the lanyard in and out, is that correct?
    Yes, I think that is normal for your model.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    I have done the LR-505 bypass you are referring to test yesterday, where all wires from module are unplugged and one black wire is connected to black terminal, with no effect. I have done the test where you eliminate the start stop switch as well, with no effect.
    As said, currently I need to wait for the problem to re occur before I can troubleshoot further. What are the symptoms when the stator is giving problems? Will it be coming and going like in this case?
    Regards
    Visually inspect all the thin black wires and grounding connections inside electrical box.

    Not just the black wires, also any bolts/screws that are part of the grounding circuits. Note that everything in the electrical box derives ground via the single black wire in the wire bundle going to the stator.

    Inside the flywheel housing the ground occurs via one of the stator mounting bolts. Rust or a loose bolt at the stator can cause problems. Not very common, but possible. A frayed/crushed/damaged stator cable can also happen.

    There may be a Deutsch DT-M connector inline with the stator cable. Unplug that and inspect carefully for moisture, corrosion, damaged pins, or other issues.

    Symtoms can vary depending on why/what is causing the trouble.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    while cranking was around 11.3-11.5V while it refused to start.

    This I can only do once returned to the inland (river on farm) since I do not want to be stuck in the ocean again!

    . I understand you should read about 250V on the black and white wires?
    As said, CDI delivered 8-9 v while cranking, but with Zero volts on Black and White? Is that indication that problem lies in the stator and CDI is fine?
    Next check would be Hall effect, but as said I will have to wait for the problem to re appear?
    I'd say you are headed in the right direction with testing.
    You know it's going to stop again- ride with a friend or where there is a lot of traffic. A paddle could help get to shore, which should be very close. Not as much fun riding, but necessary.

    The CDI wakes up-sends the 8-9 volts on brown wire, which powers the stator and during cranking-hall effects should send a signal on red or green wire to CDI that it is time to fire the spark plugs( voltage on blk/wht, at least 110v and climbing).
    Pretty sure the stop wire being grounded would keep the CDI from getting power on brown wire.

    As K447 mentioned, check the inline connecter. You should see the 8-9 volts on the red or green wires when cranking( when it decides to not start) That would confirm connection across those wires. And likely the CDI is getting the signal to fire.
    Typically when either part goes bad, it stays bad.
    I do have a CDI that does not signal the coils-all else does work.

    If I had to guess and had to change a part at the beach, I would say CDI. But... I also like to have a spare CDI.

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