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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by seadoo02xp View Post
    The supplier of these cans is me and if you think I’m going to offer refunds because of a problem with a seadoo ace engine design you are sadly mistaken. The riva can is wide open with no baffle . Mine has a baffle . The problem is not the catch can or a matter of being adequate. No can on the market will be able to keep all the oil vapor out of the ski without a line going back to the intake which will still get oil vapor in the intercooler .

    The fact that you think the supplier should recall the cans because Seadoo’s attempt at making a plasma engine basically failed is just crazy . But that’s the way the public thinks these days isn’t it .

    Do you realize that the riva Yamaha Catch can isn’t even a catch can? It’s a little filter that will blow oil vapor down the side of the exhaust manifold .

    Either your engine bay gets the oil vapor or the intake does . I guess you just have to decide . It’s only been this way since the catch cans hit the market on the 4tec platform in 2004 .
    I sympathize with your plight, but others may not. Most feel that any product made for any reason and sold in good faith to customers paying hard earned money should function as advertised. This is true whether you make a profit on them or not or whether you're a Fortune 500 company or one guy selling homemade products manufactured in your garage. Either way, people are out the money they paid for something they expected to work.

    I co-own a business and know about customer satisfaction issues. Customers want what they pay for, period. Their sympathy only goes so far no matter how valid or sincere your reasons are. Not offering a refund or other recourse is only going to make things worse. If the Riva can I purchased fails to perform as expected, then of course I'm going to ask for a refund. That's the right of any consumer when purchasing a product that does not work as advertised. If I don't get a refund, then they'll never see my business again and like the person who started this thread, I may choose to warn others. Is this fair? It all depends if you're the buyer or the seller and the surrounding circumstances, but when you part people from their money and they're not satisfied, bad things happen.

    The solution is simple. Now that you know there are issues with the 300 engine, all you need to do is state in the product description that this product is not recommended for that specific engine. If you don't, and people believe that it will work perfectly well on a 300 engine but it ends up spewing oil into their engine compartment, then you're going to have customer satisfaction issues as you're already seeing here.

    So stop selling these cans for the 300 for now, and perhaps come up with a more robust design, maybe with a larger size can and a more effective baffle. Or, instead of a sock (which is lame) add a foam cover over the filter to catch any uncontained oil and add instructions to clean it periodically. Or, if it can't be done as you say, then just forgo this one segment of the business, and stop selling this can for the 300 engine. But the last thing you want is threads like this with a bunch of people complaining loudly and publically about your previously excellently performing product just because it doesn't perform well for one specific engine.

  2. #32
    2017 RXT-X 300 zone 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pro10is View Post
    I sympathize with your plight, but others may not. Most feel that any product made for any reason and sold in good faith to customers paying hard earned money should function as advertised. This is true whether you make a profit on them or not or whether you're a Fortune 500 company or one guy selling homemade products manufactured in your garage. Either way, people are out the money they paid for something they expected to work.

    I co-own a business and know about customer satisfaction issues. Customers want what they pay for, period. Their sympathy only goes so far no matter how valid or sincere your reasons are. Not offering a refund or other recourse is only going to make things worse. If the Riva can I purchased fails to perform as expected, then of course I'm going to ask for a refund. That's the right of any consumer when purchasing a product that does not work as advertised. If I don't get a refund, then they'll never see my business again and like the person who started this thread, I may choose to warn others. Is this fair? It all depends if you're the buyer or the seller and the surrounding circumstances, but when you part people from their money and they're not satisfied, bad things happen.

    The solution is simple. Now that you know there are issues with the 300 engine, all you need to do is state in the product description that this product is not recommended for that specific engine. If you don't, and people believe that it will work perfectly well on a 300 engine but it ends up spewing oil into their engine compartment, then you're going to have customer satisfaction issues as you're already seeing here.

    So stop selling these cans for the 300 for now, and perhaps come up with a more robust design, maybe with a larger size can and a more effective baffle. Or, instead of a sock (which is lame) add a foam cover over the filter to catch any uncontained oil and add instructions to clean it periodically. Or, if it can't be done as you say, then just forgo this one segment of the business, and stop selling this can for the 300 engine. But the last thing you want is threads like this with a bunch of people complaining loudly and publically about your previously excellently performing product just because it doesn't perform well for one specific engine.
    believe me, the last thing I was or am looking for is a refund, but your points in this post are very well written. This catch can worked perfectly last year. I don't know why. I bought the ski late in season and only put7 hrs on it. There was not a drop of oil on it when I pulled the battery for winter. The 3 hrs this year have made a mess as the picture shows. So I "guess" that as it broke in that it's making more blow by. With that said, if these motors do that, then I would agree that you make a very valid point that it should probably be stated that the catch can may not work as designed on the 300. As it's rained for the last 2 days I can't even see what having a sock over it does. I can deal with having to change that If that is still horrible, I will probably buy a moroso one I'd be really interested to see if people with this issue that change to the Riva can have the problem go away.

  3. #33
    Boost addict hotbird's Avatar
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    I suppose its only fair that GRF pays to pull your engine a part and install cylinder sleeves and full rebuild while they are at it.

    After all that's the real problem.


    If you buy a fuel regulator kit only to find it won't build fuel pressure past 40 psi do you demand a full refund or do you fix the problem that is the fuel pump?

  4. #34
    GRF + DashPac:) seadoo02xp's Avatar
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    This thread is insane . Catch cans have been blowing oil mist on engines for years . Like I said since 2004 when the damn engine came out. Tell ya what Iíll remove my listing when riva does . Give me a fucking break.
    You will not find or make a can that removes all the oil vapor because itís just that.... vapor.
    Sorry the seadoo made a garbage engine and itís my fault .

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by hotbird View Post
    I suppose its only fair that GRF pays to pull your engine a part and install cylinder sleeves and full rebuild while they are at it...
    Let's not get ridiculous.

    If a catch-can is designed, advertised, and sold for a very specific line of boats, which this catch-can is, it very clearly implies that it will perform as expected for all motors within that line of boats, unless the product description or specifications specifically state otherwise. The purchaser then has the right to expect nominal performance from that product. If not, requesting a refund or some other form of help is certainly not unreasonable. This applies to GRF, Riva, or anyone selling such parts.

    Out of the engine manufacturer, the product seller, and the purchaser, the purchaser is the least responsible party and yet the one who loses his money if purchasing a product that does not work as specified. The purchaser becomes the end victim. Having the seller blame the engine manufacturer does not change that or in any way help the person who lost their money buying a product in good faith that was advertised and sold by the seller to work for their specific boat.

    Now that it's clear that there are issues with the catch-can on this particular engine, my suggestion is simply to state in the product description that it's not recommended for this one specific engine. Then, if someone purchases it for the engine and has issues, the seller is no longer under any legal or moral obligation to offer a refund. Problem solved for the seller and the purchaser, and there are no hard feelings on either end. At the very least, the seller should state in the description that his product may not be able to catch all vapors from some engines. The seller then has provided a disclaimer and a warning to the buyer that the product has limitations.

  6. #36
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    Interesting thread for me anyway. I sold one of my skis to buy a PX 300. I reviewed this thread to see if I needed a catch can and which can to buy. I had no idea that I was going to read about what a piece of shit engine that I was about to buy........

    Maybe I should just buy a used 260 instead......

    The 300 has been out for three years. I thought surely that BRP could "refine" it by then.

    So is there any point of putting a can on a 300 or not???

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by seadoo02xp View Post
    This thread is insane . Catch cans have been blowing oil mist on engines for years . Like I said since 2004 when the damn engine came out. Tell ya what I’ll remove my listing when riva does . Give me a fucking break.
    You will not find or make a can that removes all the oil vapor because it’s just that.... vapor.
    Sorry the seadoo made a garbage engine and it’s my fault .
    i wouldn't be getting too stressed about this, you will always run into customers with unreasonable demands or expectations. As long as the vast majority of your customers are happy and you are happy with the quality of the product that's all you can do at the end of the day.

  8. +1 by:

    JPR

  9. #38
    2017 RXT-X 300 zone 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotbird View Post
    I suppose its only fair that GRF pays to pull your engine a part and install cylinder sleeves and full rebuild while they are at it.

    After all that's the real problem.


    If you buy a fuel regulator kit only to find it won't build fuel pressure past 40 psi do you demand a full refund or do you fix the problem that is the fuel pump?
    I know I didn't say this, and I didn't see anyone else say it either. Catch Cans are advertised to do just that. Catch. I have a Dodge Hellcat, which many people put catch cans on for the same reason that we put them on our S/C skis. I've not heard a single person say the motor is a POS because it needs a catch can. I sure didn't.

    I have no idea what or if there is some perceived problem with the 300 Doo engine, My engine has 11 hrs on it as today. and there are a ton of 300's with a lot more hrs. If there was a problem with the engine, it should have 10K posts here on Greenhulk.

  10. #39
    2017 RXT-X 300 zone 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadoo02xp View Post
    This thread is insane . Catch cans have been blowing oil mist on engines for years . Like I said since 2004 when the damn engine came out. Tell ya what I’ll remove my listing when riva does . Give me a fucking break.
    You will not find or make a can that removes all the oil vapor because it’s just that.... vapor.
    Sorry the seadoo made a garbage engine and it’s my fault .
    I did not say anything about your product. I think its well built. Thats why I bought yours and not Riva's. No one that I see is blaming your product. All I have seen is it being said that it may not be able to do what people think, on the 300 engine.

    If someone can come up with a way to make a product better by having a civil discussion, thats good for all of us.


  11. #40
    2017 RXT-X 300 zone 5's Avatar
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    Now back to my original issue. I put a simple old tube sock over my breather today. I ran the boat for about an hour, most of it at WOT. The pictures below tell the story.

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