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  1. #11
    TimeBandit's Avatar
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    I see two problems with this topic: a) getting water/moisture out of the voided space between inner & outer hulls, & b) cracked nanoXcel hull (as previously mentioned) NOT being realistically repairable.

    In regards to (a), sure cutting out a larger area of damage and tipping/tilting the hull can help with the drying. Additionally, it would be prudent to first inject freshwater into the void to flush-out the salt residue.

    (b) the nanoXcel material is SMC with impregnated wax-like filler embedded (as to offset the amount of total resin used - aka lighter end-product over plain SMC). The "problem" of repairing is two-fold: 1) SMC polymers are more compatible with bonding to epoxy-based resins (not the common polyester-based fiberglass repair kits). Using polyester resins will have guaranteed adhesion issues. (2) the wax-like filler that is inter-mixed into the nanoXcel material provides for "continuous contamination" nightmare scenario. We all know it's all about 90% prep & 10% repair effort to properly repair a hull. Typically this entails excavating hull material beyond the damage, roughen and feather the to be jointed surfaces. However, this mechanical cutting, grinding, & sanding will simply re-release and then spread that embedded wax filler material EVERYWHERE. So even with the proper epoxy resin, you will have a very difficult time (reliably) bonding the patch filler to the existing hull surfaces, being that the contamination is virtually impossible to clean away. Can it be done . . . . . . and that answer is again, "to what degree of reliability." It would take an experienced level of surface-prep, to include both mechanical and proper chemical cleaning to de-contaminate the repair site - both of which are outside the realm of the a-typical repair shop or shady-tree repair guy – hence the reputation these hulls not being repairable.

  2. #12
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Arrow NanoXcel 2 hull repair notes, info, guidelines

    Quote Originally Posted by TimeBandit View Post
    ... the contamination is virtually impossible to clean away. Can it be done . . . . . . and that answer is again, "to what degree of reliability."

    It would take an experienced level of surface-prep, to include both mechanical and proper chemical cleaning to de-contaminate the repair site - both of which are outside the realm of the a-typical repair shop or shady-tree repair guy ....
    Why do you say the decontamination (wax removal) is beyond the capability of a reasonably skilled repair effort?

    The embedded wax is apparently readily dissolvable using acetone. Repeated wet dabbing applications of the solvent and then quickly mopping the liquid up (acetone carrying disolved wax) with multiple clean cloth seems to be effective.

    Essentially one is flushing the prepped hull surface with liquid acetone and extracting/removing the fluid before it has chance to evaporate.

    This is done after the sanding and related mechanical repair area shaping.

    The choice of fiberglass material also matters. Unlike traditional fiberglass hull repairs, roving cloth and fiberglass mat are not to be used for NanoXcel repairs using epoxy resin, as roving cloth and fiberglass mat have a styrene coating on the fibers which is not compatible with epoxy.

    Glass cloth and chopped strand glass ARE to be used.

    In addition to the Yamaha repair guide, look at this NanoXcel 2 repair info
    nanoxcel.shorturl.com

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamaha 2014 Hull Repair Guide 90894-64680-42_HullRepair.pdf  
    Last edited by K447; 07-06-2020 at 10:11 AM.


  3. #13
    TimeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Why do you say the decontamination (wax removal) is beyond the capability of a reasonably skilled repair effort

    . . . .

    Essentially one is flushing the prepped hull surface with liquid acetone and extracting/removing the fluid before it has chance to evaporate.
    First, thanks for posting that MFG repair guidance - very helpful to the community, as it clearly addresses the SMC compatibility with epoxy-based resins. I have indeed repaired plain SMC with good reliable results adhering to methods/techniques described therein.

    Okay, so acetone would not be my 1st decontamination choice for two reasons: 1) being that yes it does evaporate too-quickly. While not impossible, it becomes impractical for that reason, in that many times, contaminates are just quickly re-deposited. This can lend towards using more and more, which in-turn 2) acetone can be too aggressive on the SMC polymers. Now, granted, this "solvent" characteristic on the substrate material can actually be somewhat welcomed for plain SMC, however the risk it poses for nano is that it can etch into additional layers of nano SMC, releasing yet more embedded contaminates.

    It would be more prudent to use an industrial-quality wax-remover, one specifically designed for auto-body boat repair industry - yet these can be not always readily attainable to the average DIY'er/consumer in most regions - often via regulations/safety. However, these are formulated to be application-specific, in being less aggressive on the substrate AND being way less evaporative.

    Once again, my stance on nano repairs is not whether it can or can not be done - rather the so-called 90% prep effort (tools & skill) is proportional to the degree of the repair's reliability. A "reasonably skilled repair effort", I'd say should afford one an equivalent reasonable reliability would you not assume

  4. #14
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeBandit View Post
    ... acetone can be too aggressive on the SMC polymers.

    Now, granted, this "solvent" characteristic on the substrate material can actually be somewhat welcomed for plain SMC, however the risk it poses for nano is that it can etch into additional layers of nano SMC, releasing yet more embedded contaminates.

    It would be more prudent to use an industrial-quality wax-remover, one specifically designed for auto-body boat repair industry - yet these can be not always readily attainable to the average DIY'er/consumer in most regions - often via regulations/safety. However, these are formulated to be application-specific, in being less aggressive on the substrate AND being way less evaporative.

    ...
    I am unfamiliar with which commercial/industrial solvent/cleaning products might be best suited to the NanoXcel wax removal process.

    Are there specific products that you could identify, even if they are restricted to the ‘trades’?

    Yamaha includes NanoXcel in the ‘SMC category’ but it is unclear (to me) whether the chemical ingredients differ significantly from traditional SMC such that the effects of acetone or other solvents to prepare the material may not be detrimental.

  5. #15
    TimeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    ....
    Are there specific products that you could identify, even if they are restricted to the ‘trades’?
    I want to say (but not confident) Grow Chemical. Yet they make a lot of products ... my "supply" is/was a generic container partitioned from a larger batch, from a friend with access, whom is associated with a major wholesale distributor chain whom supplies both retail stores like Finishmaster and individual auto-body shops. Next time we cross paths, I'll see if I can get more info.

  6. #16
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    I wonder if readily available lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol would be a good alternative to acetone.

  7. #17
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outboardjohn View Post
    I wonder if readily available lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol would be a good alternative to acetone.
    The composition of the trapped wax compound would determine what solvents could be effective.

    Whatever is used it must cleanly remove the wax and not leave other byproducts behind. And it must be compatible with the fibrous NanoXcel material itself.

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