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  1. #11
    Yes, when the engine was first assembled (before I put the ignition timing light on it) I primed all four holes. Nothing. Not even a pop.

    With the ignition timing this far off, that's understandable. There would be zero compression at that point (piston half way down the cylinder).

    Quote Originally Posted by nmpeter View Post
    did you drop an oz of gas in each jug?...that will tell you pretty quick if its a timing problem or not. I assume you've got the plugs and connections all correct.

    wear ear protection and do this OUTSIDE. do not stand near the open engine compartment. DO NOT use starting fluid.

    engine sitting so long in parts the injectors could be a little gummed up and the timing light could be a red herring.

    lets see a backfire or two before we go with " the timing is off"

    I had a 15f in here A few weeks ago that would not start after a long lay up in storage. The owner took it to a backyard guy who burt two batteries and a starter trying to get it to start.

    a couple of shot of ray gas, it sputtered and backfired but somehow it started running

    for $100


  2. #12
    Rodsatheart's Avatar
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    Ihate to ask this because i don't have a 15f, but the cams didn't reversed by chance ? Grasping at straws as to why 90°.

  3. #13
    Good thinking.

    But no. They are labeled (IN / EX), and only the exhaust cam has the rotor on it for the cam position sensor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsatheart View Post
    Ihate to ask this because i don't have a 15f, but the cams didn't reversed by chance ? Grasping at straws as to why 90°.

  4. #14
    Rodsatheart's Avatar
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    How are you locating tdc ?

  5. #15
    I use a long screwdriver in the number one hole. Rotate the engine back and forth until I find the "center" of the top.

    Although I can't see the crankshaft rotor, sometimes I slip a cell phone down into the hull and snap a picture of it to double check it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsatheart View Post
    How are you locating tdc ?

  6. #16
    Rodsatheart's Avatar
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    Just fyi, there is several degrees of crank rotation with little or no piston movement when at tdc, but not 90°worth, but can equal a couple of teeth.
    Anothe thought is that the po used the cam rotor as a block to loosen something and it is now not in the correct location.

  7. #17
    Yes, understood. Thus the back and forth to find center.

    The cam rotor is keyed (fixed position) to the cam, so the only way it could be off is if it is damaged. I have considered mounting it outside of its keyed position to see what happens.

    It occurs to me that since the ignition timing is all electronic (computer driven), one tooth on the cam timing could [potentially] cause a substantial difference (even the 90 degrees I'm seeing) on the ignition timing. With that in mind, will one tooth in either direction cause valve strike on this engine? I could intentionally advance (or retard) it by one tooth and see what it does if I know that won't result in engine damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsatheart View Post
    Just fyi, there is several degrees of crank rotation with little or no piston movement when at tdc, but not 90°worth, but can equal a couple of teeth.
    Anothe thought is that the po used the cam rotor as a block to loosen something and it is now not in the correct location.

  8. #18
    Rodsatheart's Avatar
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    Yes, but key ways can be damaged and keys can be sheared and/or damaged, or as you said, the rotor damaged. My fault, I didn't make it clear enough. Not only is there degrees of normal rotation with minimal piston movement, when going back and forth there is even more no movement of the piston. Once you have found that neutral position of the piston, you need to find as close to zero movement of the crank, mark it. I would make a wire pointer and attach it to the case, bend the wire to align with a reluctor tooth, mark the face (not top) of the tooth and use it.
    I honestly can't tell you if 1 tooth will or not. It all depends on piston to valve clearance. I would think not, as you might be a crank tooth or 2 off now.

  9. #19
    Rodsatheart's Avatar
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    Strike that about the wire pointer. Look at the reluctor. There is a line on it right under the T. I bet that line is to align with the case half perfectly yo set tdc.
    Can someone please verify this ?
    I'm off to work and will check back later.

  10. #20
    Yes - there is a line on the reluctor (see one of my pictures in a previous post). Since I can't see in there, I snap a picture of it to confirm that my centering technique is working. I don't take a picture every time because I'm tired of removing the case cover down there (don't want to crank the engine with the cover off, or I'll get oil everywhere).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsatheart View Post
    Strike that about the wire pointer. Look at the reluctor. There is a line on it right under the T. I bet that line is to align with the case half perfectly yo set tdc.
    Can someone please verify this ?
    I'm off to work and will check back later.

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