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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    the Kawi ECU logs engine run time
    the Kawi ECU WILL log max rpm ( over OEM set limit) when / if a fault code situation occurs if you are exceeding the max RPM ( 76..rpm ) or what ever it was

    so basically if you are lucky enough to never lodge a fault code then you could get away with it.

    but if your holding it WOT and you log a oil temp , or low oil , or over heat etc KAWI CAN see the extra RPM gained from a scom ..........

    and to try and blame a stuck speedo wheel can work , but you max speed would need to reflect this when the fault happens...

    Waz

    this I know for sure
    Sorry, you are not correct on this. SCOM does not remove rev limiter, so your example means nothing. All the speed limit function in the Kwai ECU does is pull power once the speed reaches a certain threshold. Lots of faults occur at or above rev limit threshold, for example when the ski comes unhooked on the rough at WOT.

    The only way for them to make a case you have had an SCOM on the ski is if had the the ability to log operation time on the limiter, which it doesn't have in the first place.

    The only time you could have warranty denied is if you took a blown up ski with the SCOM still installed, or used a version that required you to cut wiring.

  2. #12
    Take the time to smile sirbreaksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANDooPro View Post
    Sorry, you are not correct on this. SCOM does not remove rev limiter, so your example means nothing. All the speed limit function in the Kwai ECU does is pull power once the speed reaches a certain threshold. Lots of faults occur at or above rev limit threshold, for example when the ski comes unhooked on the rough at WOT.

    The only way for them to make a case you have had an SCOM on the ski is if had the the ability to log operation time on the limiter, which it doesn't have in the first place.

    The only time you could have warranty denied is if you took a blown up ski with the SCOM still installed, or used a version that required you to cut wiring.
    well then lets just don't worry about it , obviously a person that sells aftermarket OEM altering devices is going to always make them selves correct..

    I can sleep at night knowing that I m NOT wrong ..... and FYI others have access to the OEM software in this world you do realize.....( even Dealers do LoL )

    ps I never said the SCOM removes the RPM limiter ( read correctly please )

    but above the factory limited speed, above the boost #, and a Higher Rpm value , and 100% throttle doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out whats been going on............... but hey its ok I'M WRONG LOL

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    well then lets just don't worry about it , obviously a person that sells aftermarket OEM altering devices is going to always make them selves correct..

    I can sleep at night knowing that I m NOT wrong ..... and FYI others have access to the OEM software in this world you do realize.....( even Dealers do LoL )

    ps I never said the SCOM removes the RPM limiter ( read correctly please )

    but above the factory limited speed, above the boost #, and a Higher Rpm value , and 100% throttle doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out whats been going on............... but hey its ok I'M WRONG LOL
    Thank you for admitting that you are wrong, LOL.

    Let me explain it with a little more detail because I don't think you either quite understand what is happening here, or you don't believe what I am saying. (you have a bit of "conspiracy theory" in your last post, LOL)

    First let me state as I did previously that Candoopro doesn't advertise our unit as a means of defeating the speed limiting function of the ECU, and we stay away from advertising it because of concerns like this. It is true that it will override the limiter, but the main purpose is to provide you with accurate speed right on your instrument cluster, as everyone knows that the stock paddle wheels are not anywhere accurate.

    You still seem to think that the OEM factory tool will somehow allow dealers to analyze how you were operating the ski, and reach a conclusion that you definitively were using an SCOM based on the data, and thus give them reason to deny warranty. Again, the dealer tools do not have any analysis capability that would allow this conclusion. You further state that there is a "gotcha", where they could look at the history data associated with a fault, and by that they could prove there was an SCOM on the ski. This is simply not true, in fact, the history data will show otherwise.

    Since you don't quite understand this, I took out my OEM Kawasaki factory KDS3 system, hooked it to a 300, and read off the info and will show you screenshots of what the dealer sees. (I would just show you screenshots of the Candoopo Kawasaki system, since we exactly replicate the KDS3 system, but then you might claim incorrectly that "we are not showing what the dealer sees!")

    When you first hook up the KDS3 factory OEM tool to an Ultra and read the ski, the first screen you see is a Menu screen:


    Note that you only have a limited selection to choose from. The Real Time Monitor screen shows you current active data coming back from the various sensors on the ECU, which is helpful for troubleshooting. As an example, the monitor shows you things like barometric pressure, battery voltage, switch positions, TPS voltage values, etc. The only history shown in this function is the total number of failure for some of the sensors, such as throttle sensor total failures. No runtime history whatsover, so the dealer cannot use this feature to tell if an SCOM was ever used on the ski. The Real Time Monitor graph just shows a subset of the total data, and you can start recording the data and it will show you what is happening between the selected sensor data. Again, nothing a dealer or factory could use to determine an SCOM was ever used.

    The actuator Tests function allows you to fire injectors, fire coils, start the fuel pump, etc to test that these components are working or not. Again, nothing related to any history.

    So lets move onto the Diagnostics feature. The main diagnostics screen shows you what faults the ECU is reporting right now. (I disconnected lots of sensor so you can see lots of faults on this ski, otherwise it would be blank.)



    Again, there is nothing on this screen relating to history, so no way to tell if an SCOM was ever used.

    Finally, we go to the only function where history is stored, the Failure History screen. The Ultra ECU's have the ability to store a grand total of 3 faults and a snapshot of a bunch of sensor data at the time of the fault. This is useful for the mechanic to understand how and when the fault happened. Was the ski running or off? Was it warmed up or cold? Did the fault happen at low speed or high speed? What engine RPM at the time of fault? So here is a screenshot of this data, in this case, an Accelerator Position fault happened when the ski was not running.



    So take a look at the screen, notice that the screen shows Engine RPM and Vehicle Speed. And lets suppose that someone installed a Candoopro GPS speed sensor, and used the KPH/MPH trick to fool the ECU to think it is going slower than it really was, and was going down the lake balls out at 73 MPH and the engine blew. At the time the engine blew, it recorded a fault. And lets just suppose that the engine was turning 7900 (or whatever the rev limiter is on a 300/310)

    What will the dealer see? He will see that the sensors are showing the engine is running, warmed up, turning 7900 RPM and going 73 KPH, which is 45 MPH. Is this proof an SCOM was used? Nope.

    Here's why. On rough water, you could mash the throttle, be going 20 MPH, come unhooked, hits the rev limiter when it happened. Or 45 MPH, in this case. For all the ECU shows, throttle was mashed, at 45 MPH it came unhooked and a fault was triggered when it came unhooked. There is no history to suggests that you were in fact going over the limited speed of the ECU, because again there are no speed runtime graphs with Kawasaki jetskis, there isn't even RPM runtime graphs.

    So there is no basis for your assertions that dealers or Kawasaki can tell you have used an SCOM based on ECU history, because it doesn't exist. But if you are dumb enough to take a blown up ski in for warranty work with SCOM still installed, then they have reason to deny coverage.
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  4. #14
    "just sayin".. jetdave56's Avatar
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    This is a great discussion great debate on both sides but let us understand though I have no skin in the game as I have no warranty and have done many modifications...

    The Ultra is speed limited @ 67mph but the RPMs are not limited. It's when your @ 67 mph your RPMs are around 7600 so it seems to be the stock maximum you can turn but when you unhook off the waves maybe doing 50-60 mph and are hitting full throttle spinning air momentarily the RPMs can spin up over 8000 creating a spike thus the illusion that you enhance the top speed somehow..
    Wouldnt a Kawasaki tech know there are spike that cause a F1 and that cause engine failure?

    Jeff...Now that SCOM is becoming obsolete from other performance companies as they overriding the limiter thru the ECU can Kawa tech read the map tables and advance timing done from a reflash or custom tune?...

  5. #15
    Take the time to smile sirbreaksalot's Avatar
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    As I said previous, WHEN a fault code is generated at certain conditions eg
    ( wot race conditions)
    The log will record the actual speed....
    Personally seen a high oil temp at 124 km/ph or even 75pkm
    ( because a candoo fitted in MPH was being used )
    Recorded on the file ......@8300 rpm,+16# of boost, high oil temps ,97% TPS value
    This speed or data is only achieved 1 way ( Scom or the like )

    I am fully aware of what the screen shots look like.

    so people fit this device as a scom or a Riva or R&D scom at your own decision...... because it obvious some sellers will prefer a sale over you getting warranty covered !!!!!!!!
    Last edited by sirbreaksalot; 03-10-2017 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    As I said previous, WHEN a fault code is generated at certain conditions ( wot race conditions)
    The log will record the actual speed....
    Personally seen a high oil temp at 124 km/ph
    Recorded on the file ......@8300 rpm
    This speed is only achieved 1 way

    I am fully aware of what the screen shots look like.
    This has nothing to do with the original post. Remember if you use the Candoopro GPS and do the KPH/MPH trick to override the ECU speed limit, the speed you see on the fault history will never be more than about 75 KPH which is under 50 MPH. We are not talking about reflashed ECU's, we are talking about using an SCOM or the Candoopro GPS.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jetdave56 View Post
    This is a great discussion great debate on both sides but let us understand though I have no skin in the game as I have no warranty and have done many modifications...

    The Ultra is speed limited @ 67mph but the RPMs are not limited. It's when your @ 67 mph your RPMs are around 7600 so it seems to be the stock maximum you can turn but when you unhook off the waves maybe doing 50-60 mph and are hitting full throttle spinning air momentarily the RPMs can spin up over 8000 creating a spike thus the illusion that you enhance the top speed somehow..
    Wouldnt a Kawasaki tech know there are spike that cause a F1 and that cause engine failure?

    Jeff...Now that SCOM is becoming obsolete from other performance companies as they overriding the limiter thru the ECU can Kawa tech read the map tables and advance timing done from a reflash or custom tune?...
    No on both counts. Since there is no runtime history, and when a ski comes unhooked it can rev higher than the rev limit for a short time, there is no way to differentiate between a stored fault that happened at that instance vs a fault happening with a modified ski at constant WOT. Kawi techs have the screens I show above, they cannot tell if an ECU has been reflashed or not. This is not the case on Yamahas or Sea Doo's, especially Yamahas because most their engines have a rev limit below 8K, and they show runtime history above 8K. If you have a lot of time above 8K on an FX SVHO, the dealer can easily deduce the ECU has been reflashed. Not so on a Kawi, no history like this.

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  9. #18
    Take the time to smile sirbreaksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdave56 View Post
    This is a great discussion great debate on both sides but let us understand though I have no skin in the game as I have no warranty and have done many modifications...

    The Ultra is speed limited @ 67mph but the RPMs are not limited. It's when your @ 67 mph your RPMs are around 7600 so it seems to be the stock maximum you can turn but when you unhook off the waves maybe doing 50-60 mph and are hitting full throttle spinning air momentarily the RPMs can spin up over 8000 creating a spike thus the illusion that you enhance the top speed somehow..
    Wouldnt a Kawasaki tech know there are spike that cause a F1 and that cause engine failure?

    Jeff...Now that SCOM is becoming obsolete from other performance companies as they overriding the limiter thru the ECU can Kawa tech read the map tables and advance timing done from a reflash or custom tune?...

    Very un likely Dave for an engine to fail from a slight RPM spike with NO LOAD, ( and if it did log a code for some strange reason , the MAP value in the data will reflect the NO LOAD situation )
    ( it wont cause a F1 code any ways)

    at the dealer level They cant tell if the ECU has been Flashed
    ( well I know of a dealer that can LOL )

    but if they ( KAWI ) ask for the ECU to be sent back ( as they do in the failed pistons cases)

    with the correct software Kawi has then YES they can tell if a ECU has been Altered......

    be a sad day for the owner getting the call saying due to ECU being flashed you gotta fork over 5k to fix the ski now ............its happened , and it will happen again that I'm sure

    I'm sure Mr Candoo will disagree ...........
    Waz

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    Very un likely Dave for an engine to fail from a slight RPM spike with NO LOAD, ( and if it did log a code for some strange reason , the MAP value in the data will reflect the NO LOAD situation )
    ( it wont cause a F1 code any ways)

    at the dealer level They cant tell if the ECU has been Flashed
    ( well I know of a dealer that can LOL )

    but if they ( KAWI ) ask for the ECU to be sent back ( as they do in the failed pistons cases)

    with the correct software Kawi has then YES they can tell if a ECU has been Altered......

    be a sad day for the owner getting the call saying due to ECU being flashed you gotta fork over 5k to fix the ski now ............its happened , and it will happen again that I'm sure

    I'm sure Mr Candoo will disagree ...........
    Waz
    No, you are right, why would I disagree? Yes, of course the factory has ways of telling if the ECU has been reflashed, but again I was just pointing out what the dealer can see (or can't see) with use of SCOM or Candoopro GPS on a stock ski, with respect to warranty claims.

  11. #20
    "just sayin".. jetdave56's Avatar
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    If you need to see km/h for speed like somewhere other than the US then the Candoo won't help but it's a great feature otherwise ..Im happy I have it..
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