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  1. #1
    Edify's Avatar
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    250x Pump Question

    I have a 2007 Ultra 250x. Recently I've been hearing increased pump noise when out of the water, like the normal clanging, but louder. I pulled the pump and figured I would take it into the shop to have it checked out. Upon removal of the pump, the impeller was wiggly loose, and I was able to spin it out by hand. Looks like the pump liner had been getting some light rubbing as a small portion of the liner was lightly rusted. I had this pump rebuilt to 2011 specs with the double front bearings about 3 or 4 years ago. I assume this issue was due to them not torqueing the impeller back on correctly?

    My other question was could this problem have done anything to the engine, like when the front bearing would fail and allow the prop to push fwd and put pressure on the crank?

    If this issue is limited to just the pump, I'll get it into the shop and checked out and tightened up. I don't think the pump liner took too much damage, it was run running fine and felt normal, but I'll check what the clearance is now. And yeah, not to the same shop as last time. Can any one recommend a shop in Lake Havasu?

    Thanks


  2. #2
    Kamaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edify View Post
    I have a 2007 Ultra 250x. Recently I've been hearing increased pump noise when out of the water, like the normal clanging, but louder. I pulled the pump and figured I would take it into the shop to have it checked out. Upon removal of the pump, the impeller was wiggly loose, and I was able to spin it out by hand. Looks like the pump liner had been getting some light rubbing as a small portion of the liner was lightly rusted. I had this pump rebuilt to 2011 specs with the double front bearings about 3 or 4 years ago. I assume this issue was due to them not torqueing the impeller back on correctly?

    My other question was could this problem have done anything to the engine, like when the front bearing would fail and allow the prop to push fwd and put pressure on the crank?

    If this issue is limited to just the pump, I'll get it into the shop and checked out and tightened up. I don't think the pump liner took too much damage, it was run running fine and felt normal, but I'll check what the clearance is now. And yeah, not to the same shop as last time. Can any one recommend a shop in Lake Havasu?

    Thanks
    I assume that impeller and nut not have been tighten by the 300-310 spec...
    Yes it can have cause the same engine fail (floating crank) as when bearing fail on the 250-260 with oem pumpshaft.

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  4. #3
    "just sayin".. jetdave56's Avatar
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    I would always put red loctite on those threads and torque to spec or near spec for kawa and seadoo skis as their conventional right tightening threads and because of the direction of the prop spin clockwise ( looking front to back) it can possibly loosen over time hitting water and objects pushing it in a counterclockwise direction ( loosen)..

    Yamahas are different ... There left handed threads they can over tighten over many many turns sometimes making it almost impossible to get off just ask any owner but using a anti seize lubricant for them can ease the job besides a recommended washer between the prop and pump...

  5. #4
    Edify's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamaki View Post
    Yes it can have cause the same engine fail (floating crank) as when bearing fail on the 250-260 with oem pumpshaft.
    Well that's not good news. If I recall, the tests to confirm crank float damage would be to
    1) Try prying on the engine side coupler for lateral movement. Should there be absolutely no movement?
    2) Cut open the oil filter and look for shiny bits

    Are these the best tests, or anything else to try?

    The engine was last running fine, is there a chance to survive this? Or if there has been any crank float, is it a matter of time until the motor eats itself?

    Bummer that this happened, only about 30 hours on the pump since the shop rebuilt it.

  6. #5
    "just sayin".. jetdave56's Avatar
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    let me add that's Red loctite on the threads on the back of the pump driveshaft that the nut is tighten to spec.... Might be too late in your case sorry to hear..

    The Kawa manual calls for no thread locking agent on Impeller threads and tail nut so tech might have just followed the book that's how it it is on a 2011 pump.. Kawa wrong on this one..

  7. #6
    Take the time to smile sirbreaksalot's Avatar
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    The kawi does tighten the prop up as it drives the prop, the problem is when you chop the throttle the spinning inertia of the prop , and the fact that the shaft has reduced its rotation very fast , the prop can undo it's self if lock locktite isn'the applied........
    The 2 smokers didn't have enough engine Brake effect to cause and rear problems...

    Waz

  8. #7
    Edify's Avatar
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    Thanks Waz . . . . are the methods I mentioned above ok for determining whether engine was hurt due to crank float by this issue?

  9. #8
    Edify's Avatar
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    Also curious for folks that have had this issue and rebuilt, what am I possibly looking at for damage? If nothing has let go yet, but there is metal found in oil filter, are we just talking new bearings and thrust washer? Or no way to tell until full tear down?

  10. #9
    11FALLINE's Avatar
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    If you have checked for crank float there should be virtually no visible movement because the tolerance for crankshaft side clearance at the thrust washer is .002" - .009". Based on your story and the presence of metal particles in the filter i would recommend a tear-down to be safe.

    This failure mode pushes the crank into the thrust washer which is two layers of metal, i believe copper alloy on the face supported by steel behind it. Eventually the crank grinds thru all the copper and then grinds on the steel which in turn destroys the crank also. Eventually it pushes far enough where parts of the crank hit the crankcase and produces aluminum debris and damage to the case. If it moves far enough it starts to cut off oil supply to main and rod bearings. You can get an idea based on the type of metal particles in your filter, copper, steel, aluminum but regardless, the safe bet is to take off the bottom crank case half and have a look.

  11. #10
    Edify's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments, 11FALLINE. I haven't done any checking as of yet. Right after pulling the pump I had to leave town and won't be back for a few weeks. I just wanted to make sure the check for crank float and filter inspection were the best means to check for damage, and what my chances were of escaping a rebuild. Nothing like being in limbo until I get back to the boat.

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