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  1. #11
    I bought a set of specs today and will draw a detailed diagram of the measurements tomorrow. I'll post it when I do also


  2. #12
    steve45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    A hose fitting really isn't that precise. Can you send me a drawing with some dimensions and I'll play with it?

    I'll PM you with my email address.
    I will reply via email tomorrow.

    I cannot not say how precise these fittings might need to be, but I can say the fuel injectors must withstand a lot of shaking and vibration. Not only is there a ram piston solenoid pounding the fuel out the injector tip over 100 times per second at several hundred PSI, the entire top of the engine is shaking 'cause it's a big 2-stroke'.

    So those tiny o-rings sealing the injector fittings have to seal and stay sealed despite the rather low 20 PSI fuel pressure and all the vibrations. No amount of fuel seepage or leaking is tolerable in an enclosed PWC hull. Fuel fumes can create an explosive mixture inside the small non-ventilated hull.

    Perhaps I could send you samples of the fuel fittings and an old Ficht injector body to measure and experiment with?
    That would work, I didn't know if you had any spares.

    About the only critical dimensions would be the O-ring grooves, and with a rubber O-ring, a .001" tolerance should be fine.

    I can probably make a couple, but I've been really busy with other projects and won't have time to do a bunch until later in the year.

    I'll PM my address to you.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    A hose fitting really isn't that precise. Can you send me a drawing with some dimensions and I'll play with it?

    I'll PM you with my email address.
    I will reply via email tomorrow.

    I cannot not say how precise these fittings might need to be, but I can say the fuel injectors must withstand a lot of shaking and vibration. Not only is there a ram piston solenoid pounding the fuel out the injector tip over 100 times per second at several hundred PSI, the entire top of the engine is shaking 'cause it's a big 2-stroke'.

    So those tiny o-rings sealing the injector fittings have to seal and stay sealed despite the rather low 20 PSI fuel pressure and all the vibrations. No amount of fuel seepage or leaking is tolerable in an enclosed PWC hull. Fuel fumes can create an explosive mixture inside the small non-ventilated hull.

    Perhaps I could send you samples of the fuel fittings and an old Ficht injector body to measure and experiment with?
    That would work, I didn't know if you had any spares.

    About the only critical dimensions would be the O-ring grooves, and with a rubber O-ring, a .001" tolerance should be fine.

    I can probably make a couple, but I've been really busy with other projects and won't have time to do a bunch until later in the year.

    I'll PM my address to you.
    i have spares also now.

  4. #14
    Finally got all of this done. Here are all the specs. I used digital calipers. I measured every dimension at least 4 times. There is at least a 0.010" variance across the parts. I had two of each I measured everything from. Since the measurements varied even around the radius of the same part I took the average and used the a number closest to the average measurement that made sense.

    After handling these for 2 hrs its obvious the elbows are of much higher quality material and much more precisely made than the T fittings for both the feed and return side. The elbows seem to be a harder plastic and the tolerance for variance is only about 0.005" and they are perfectly straight and rigid. If you look at the black T fitting in the pic you can tell its bent a little and the plastic seems softer. On the T fittings the Barbs on the T are smaller in diameter than the barbs on the elbow. After all the research I've done so far my best guess is that the elbow fittings were made by whoever was responsible for putting the Ficht injectors on the Evinrude outboards as they only use the Black and White elbows and the lines spider out from a 1-in 6-out manifold block. Then when the decision was made, likely at a later time, to use the Ficht injectors on the Polaris and Kawasaki motors the T-fitting was made by someone else with much less precision to run the injectors in a 3 cylinder row.








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  6. #15
    I have two people working on this now. One is a national brass fitting company and the other is a local machine shop. I have all of this info in their hands now and Ill have concrete info next week on production costs. My local guy said they would likely have castings made of each part and then machine down the castings to final spec as one piece. His estimates for casting and machining from brass were low enough that I could likely get these in the hands of anyone who wants a set for no more than $40 for each part and possibly less. This would hopefully make it so each set of the 6 parts would be around $240 give or take. I know its not cheap but it will give me piece of mind so I never have to worry about this weak link on the ski.

    I also just received my Used T-fittings I bought off of Ebay from the only place I could find them to replace the one that collapsed in my hands while rebuilding the fuel lines on my ski. I got two of each of the T fittings and (just to drive home my point about how weak these old T fitting are getting) both of the white fittings have stress marks on the plastic where one of the barbed ends meets the block in the middle that joins the 3 connections together. Sure, it could be from the person who pulled the old hose off when they broke down the old ski they came from but certainly shows their lack of integrity at this age. Ill likely use them temporarily but I'm absolutely getting a set made in Brass. If any of you are interested in a set at the prices I listed above let me know so I can know how many sets to have made in this first run.

    Jim

  7. #16
    steve45's Avatar
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    Good job! If I were to make them, I would make the barbed section out of round brass stock and the O-ring section out of square brass stock. Bore & ream the hole through the square piece for the barbed section to go through with a snug fit, then solder them. I don't think silver solder would be necessary.

    There are actually 4 different size fittings? That would get confusing, but I'm sure some of the dimensions aren't critical (length of the barbs, for instance). I'm sure I could do them for less than $40, but I don't have a machine shop to keep in business.

  8. #17
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    If the elbow fittings as used on the outboard engines are available as separate pieces, perhaps it makes sense to purchase those and not create metal versions. Especially if they are the same actual parts as the OEM Kawasaki/Polaris Ficht, just new parts.

    For the other cylinders perhaps the outboard manifold method can be retrofitted to the watercraft rather than the original inline tee fitting arrangement. Then the new plastic elbow fittings can be used on all three watercraft cylinders.

    I have no no idea whether the outboard manifold would be a useful adaptation for the watercraft or if a different manifold should be conjured up.

  9. #18
    One of these days we will be able to 3d print all this stuff and it will be strong enough to withstand the stresses of the environment.

  10. #19
    steve45's Avatar
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    I ordered & received some brass to start on this, just need to find some time to do it.

    Are the dimensions on the Tee fittings the same as the elbo fittings?

  11. #20
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    ...
    Are the dimensions on the Tee fittings the same as the elbo fittings?
    In terms of fitting into the fuel injectors, the fittings are the same.

    Ficht fuel injector return fittings are are smaller than the fuel delivery fittings, on both tee and elbow.

    The hose barbs are just, well, hose barbs.
    Last edited by K447; 07-18-2016 at 12:05 AM.

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