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Thread: MSX150 problems

  1. #1

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    MSX150 problems

    Hi everyone. I am new at this ski thing so please be kind. I have purchased a 2004 msx150 with 100 hrs. I have completed the learning phase of how to determine the correct amount of oil after overfilling and having oil spaying out of oil seperator. realizing my mistake I correctly serviced the oil lol. Pulled both sensors and cleaned. They weren,t bad just a little crusty. Machine starts up fine and runs ok but limited to 35 mph and 5700 rpms. Red light above display flashing with "check engine" message flashing. Looked at wastegate only because I read a thread about it. Valve loose and free when rod disconnected. took supply hose to solenoid off and blew back and found it blocked solid. Removed the banjo fitting and cleared blockage there. Solenoid tested and appears fine. Still dose not seem to be much press to solenoid when engine running at idle. Not sure there should be at idle. Read a thread about adjusting the diaphram setting to 6 - 7 psi. Does anyone know exactly how to adjust that spring tension??
    Any help appreciated. Is there any way to pull codes other than a dealer.
    Thanks again .
    newt


  2. #2
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Welcome Newt!
    I have to ask... did you research the MSX 150 *before* or *after* your purchase?

    Okay. It's very possible the overfill of oil caused oil ingestion. You pulled the MAP sensors... did they have oil on them? Pull the hardpipe (between intercooler(IC) and intake). Does it have heavy oil or gunk? If so... you will need to clean thoroughly from the turbo, turbo-to-IC hose, IC (will want to remove to do properly), IC-to-intake hardpipe, remove ETB, clean intake manifold (through ETB hole). You will probably need one new MAP sensor... if the hardpipe MAP was oil fouled. It reads air temp (other one does not) and that part of the sensor is damaged by oil or petroleum cleaners. Even after all this... the ECU might still be stuck on previous bad MAP sensor data... so it might not run right.

    Wastegate actuator rod. It would have been best not to unscrew/adjust that rod... but what's done is done. Good to hear the wastegate flapper door isn't seized. You will need to get that rod threaded back on and adusted properly. Here is how Weber says to do it.
    This is how Weber recommends adjusting it.

    3.5 rotations of the jam nut = 7mm of spring load

    Loosen the lock nuts and adjust the “eye” bolt until you can thread the 6mm screw in by hand. (it should thread into position easily)., then tighten the barrel nut 3 ½ turns so you are “preloading” the wastegate.

    Don’t adjust the tension on the wastegate arm. It won’t help it build more boost, and will only make it ‘flutter” more as it goes into “overboost”

    It will sound like it's banging on the rev limiter.
    Another way to check it: http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106344

    Wastegate solenoid. Good that you found the boost source hose off the turbo compressor housing banjo was blocked. Odd that it was... good you found it. You will not notice any pressure from that hose at idle. There is not enough exhaust volume to spin the turbo enough to make boost (which is pressure ABOVE what the engine is already using). You would not see boost out of that hose until way higher in the RPMs... UNDER LOAD. Your not likely to get much of any boost on the trailer... with the engine spinning w/o load... and you shouldn't try either. The Weber will zing sky high if you throttle it on the trailer. Thus you should always run with reverse engaged (limits RPMs to 3400) while running on the trailer/hose (out of water).

    Do you have the new updated style wastegate solenoid (boost valve)... attached to the bracket off the valve cover? Or the original style attached to the side of the turbo? Old style if very prone to failing... just FYI.

    Lastly codes. Only way to read/clear codes is with Polaris (dealer-only) Digital Wrench... and a couple unique to the Weber MSX 110/150 cables. A few of us members have it... but it's not something you can just buy. This sucks... as you can imagine. We mostly are forced to troubleshoot likely issues based on how the engine/ecu are acting... rev limits... etc.

    Cheers!

  3. #3

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    Thank you

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    Thanks again for your response. Your initial question made me chuckle. I totally get it. My buddy and I picked this ski up for cheap money. Has 100 hrs and previous owner didn't have a clue or any mechanical skills. I am a mech for major airline for 40 years. Figure we can get this going. We pulled both map sensors.(twice) and never any sign of oil contamination. Just dry and a little crusty. I will follow your advice and check for oil contamination. thanks. We did get a copy of service manual.
    As for the wastegate. We only disconnected the rod end to check for free movement of the waste valve and that is free. I did previously read the thread you sent me about that adjustment. Thanks. That,s where I got confused about how to adjust the tension of the spring. Is that done by rotating the shaft. I actually rode the ski with the seat off. (crazy huh?) But never saw any movement of the valve. But maybe the boost was'nt enough.
    I will let you know how things go. We promised ourselves that we wouldnt let this project eat up too much time from our vacation.
    Again thanks for your advice and the links.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newt View Post
    Thanks again for your response. Your initial question made me chuckle. I totally get it. My buddy and I picked this ski up for cheap money. Has 100 hrs and previous owner didn't have a clue or any mechanical skills. I am a mech for major airline for 40 years. Figure we can get this going. We pulled both map sensors.(twice) and never any sign of oil contamination. Just dry and a little crusty. I will follow your advice and check for oil contamination. thanks. We did get a copy of service manual.
    As for the wastegate. We only disconnected the rod end to check for free movement of the waste valve and that is free. I did previously read the thread you sent me about that adjustment. Thanks. That,s where I got confused about how to adjust the tension of the spring. Is that done by rotating the shaft. I actually rode the ski with the seat off. (crazy huh?) But never saw any movement of the valve. But maybe the boost was'nt enough.
    I will let you know how things go. We promised ourselves that we wouldnt let this project eat up too much time from our vacation.
    Again thanks for your advice and the links.
    Riding with the seat off can be a useful diagnostic method. Often the same results can be more safely gathered by keeping the ski strapped to the trailer, front and rear. Back it down the launch ramp until the jet pump intake is fully submerged. Now you can run it as long as needed, with the seat off, and monitor what is going on in the engine compartment.

    You can apply throttle while strapped to the trailer, just make sure there is no loose debris under the hull that could get sucked into the jet pump. Set the tow vehicle parking brake and make sure the bow cannot ride up over the winch post roller.

    This is a test of a 2-stroke model;


    Note the steam coming out with the exhaust. There is water injected directly into the exhaust gas flow after it leaves the engine. This prevents the large diameter rubber exhaust hoses from melting. There is a mesh screen and water flow metering orifice that should be checked/cleaned (if the Weber is similar to the 2-stroke exhaust).

    Some useful info can be found via my signature links.

  6. #6
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    I would offer that your trailer had better be pretty stout to take the thrust of the machine you are testing...some modern machines make more than 1000lbs of thrust!

  7. #7

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    Ok. Pulled map sensors. No sign of oil.
    pulled the hard pipe between inter cooler and intake. No sign or trace of oil.
    inlet side of inter cooler has a slight film of oil but as I peeked inside cooler with a strong light doesn't appear to be real ugly.
    throttlee body was dry with a little white crusty look. Exercised the butterfly as I sprayed body cleaner.
    replaced fuel filter.
    Starts up fine and idles great. Rode for awhile. Max rpm 6000 with red lite flashing and " check engine" message flashing.
    after about 15 minutes returned to dock with some blue smoke coming from exhaust. Popped seat and checked engine compt. doesnt seem to be ovErheating and no signs of oil. Oil level still checks good.
    May go to local marina to see if anyone can pull codes for me at what cost.

  8. #8
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Hmm. Did you get the wastegate actuator rod length put back to proper?
    Do a compression test.
    Yeah... codes would be so useful.

    Good luck.
    Cheers!

  9. #9
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Where are you located?

  10. #10

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    Naples, maine

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