Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    22

    virage high rpm sieze symptom

    2000 Virage, first owner with less than 100 hrs as I recall. Havent run it in about 4yrs. couldn't figure out the issue and put it in the back yard and drove my other ski.

    Original issue: Ski is one of the 'spares' for family to ride on the river. Had been sitting for a couple of years and let my nephew ride it. We were cruising, had been riding for 5 minutes or so and it quit, would not start, and showed all indications that it siezed up as the starter would engage but not turn the engine over. Got back to the house 30 minutes later, hooked it up to the hose, started and idled fine until I shut it off.

    Pulled the pump, replaced all the bearings, back on the water, same issue. Idled fine for 10-15 minutes, revved ok, but once on plane, quit and seemed to lock up as before. 30 minutes later back at the house, started and idled fine.

    Pulled engine for inspection, no scoring of the cylinder or pistons indicating lean condition, lack of oil, etc aka from all observations the engine had not seized. Put new rings on piston, reassembled. Fresh gas with oil mix with about a 30:1 premix. Oil in the pump tank and pump seemed to be working ok. Back on the water, same thng, idled fine and off plane for 10 to 15 minutes. On plane for 2-3 minutes, engine stops and appears to be seized..starter engages but doesn't spin the engine. 30 minutes later, back at the house, starts and runs fine. Stumped..it gets parked in the yard for the next four years. I did pull the flywheel cover off and look at the bendix, but it looked fine as well.

    This week, I got motivated to get it fixed, took off the exhaust manifold, intake manifold and took the engine out. Didn't take the jugs off, but the cylinders look fine, no evidence of scoring whatsoever. motor spins fine, bearing don't make noise when spun. Pump spins fine too. And the starter bendix looks 4.0, no evidence of it being locked to the flywheel while the engine was running. Through hull bearing lubed and the driveshaft has no evidence of scoring.

    So, I'm thinking fuel starvation at high speed, just enough to freeze the engine but not enough to cause any visible damage. (anyone ever seen this?) It still has the old grey fuel lines, and I have never cleaned/rebuilt the carb. My next step is to do that. Other than poor electrical connections, manifesting itself as a starter that won't turn the engine over and causing the engine to die, I'm out of ideas.

    Anyone had similar experience, or have any other suggestions?


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    46,529
    +1
    2,709
    Did you remove and inspect the jet pump? If the jet pump bearings seize the engine cannot turn.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    22
    That was the first thing I rebuilt.

  4. #4
    Connecticut CrazyA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    CT.
    Posts
    8,294
    +1
    1,110
    If you had the engine out and the heads off, please post pictures of what you saw.

  5. +1 by:


  6. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    46,529
    +1
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by squared View Post
    2000 Virage, first owner with less than 100 hrs as I recall. Havent run it in about 4yrs. couldn't figure out the issue and put it in the back yard and drove my other ski.

    Original issue: Ski is one of the 'spares' for family to ride on the river. Had been sitting for a couple of years and let my nephew ride it. We were cruising, had been riding for 5 minutes or so and it quit, would not start, and showed all indications that it siezed up as the starter would engage but not turn the engine over. Got back to the house 30 minutes later, hooked it up to the hose, started and idled fine until I shut it off.

    Pulled the pump, replaced all the bearings, back on the water, same issue. Idled fine for 10-15 minutes, revved ok, but once on plane, quit and seemed to lock up as before. 30 minutes later back at the house, started and idled fine.

    Pulled engine for inspection, no scoring of the cylinder or pistons indicating lean condition, lack of oil, etc aka from all observations the engine had not seized. Put new rings on piston, reassembled. Fresh gas with oil mix with about a 30:1 premix. Oil in the pump tank and pump seemed to be working ok. Back on the water, same thng, idled fine and off plane for 10 to 15 minutes. On plane for 2-3 minutes, engine stops and appears to be seized..starter engages but doesn't spin the engine. 30 minutes later, back at the house, starts and runs fine. Stumped..it gets parked in the yard for the next four years. I did pull the flywheel cover off and look at the bendix, but it looked fine as well.

    This week, I got motivated to get it fixed, took off the exhaust manifold, intake manifold and took the engine out. Didn't take the jugs off, but the cylinders look fine, no evidence of scoring whatsoever. motor spins fine, bearing don't make noise when spun. Pump spins fine too. And the starter bendix looks 4.0, no evidence of it being locked to the flywheel while the engine was running. Through hull bearing lubed and the driveshaft has no evidence of scoring.

    So, I'm thinking fuel starvation at high speed, just enough to freeze the engine but not enough to cause any visible damage. (anyone ever seen this?) It still has the old grey fuel lines, and I have never cleaned/rebuilt the carb. My next step is to do that. Other than poor electrical connections, manifesting itself as a starter that won't turn the engine over and causing the engine to die, I'm out of ideas.

    Anyone had similar experience, or have any other suggestions?
    Does this machine still have the original start solenoid? Black body with metal backing plate. If yes, these are known to corrode internally and fail.

    The return spring can collapse, causing the starter to engage randomly or stay engaged when Start button is released.

    The updated solenoid is now all plastic, no metal backing plate. Looks like this;

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	32.7 KB 
ID:	364355



    And, um, carburetors...

  7. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    46,529
    +1
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by squared View Post
    That was the first thing I rebuilt.
    I missed that note on the first read.

  8. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    22
    It's the original solenoid, so that could be the issue, thanks. I'll get another one and include that in this round and see what happens. Don't normally like to do more than one repair at a time, but in this instance if either the solenoid or carb/fuel lines fixes it I guess it's ok.

    CrazyA, I did take the heads and cylinders off when I installed the rings but didn't take photos. There was no pitting or erosion from what I remember..as far as burn or carbon pattern on the crown, I can't remember (if that's where you are going).

    OBTW, I looked at the cylinders and pistons through the exhaust ports this last time and no scoring of cylinder or piston.

  9. #8
    MSX 150 guy lives on Mr. GP1800's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee WI
    Posts
    18,079
    +1
    1,609
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyA View Post
    If you had the engine out and the heads off, please post pictures of what you saw.

    ​BET!!!!!

  10. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    22
    I noticed in one of your other posts that you pointed this out:

    "Unlike the Fuji engines the red domestic engine CDI will not fire the spark plugs if the battery voltage is marginal while the engine is cranking."

    I was under the assumption that the ignition on these was AC, not DC. I do have a manual and a significant amount of wrench turning time on my SLX, but this seems to indicate to me that the CDI is a DC unit...which like motorcycles, scooters and the like will not run with a marginal/dead battery.

    So, the issue with my Virage might possibly be a battery or electrical connection issue (normally bad ground from what I've seen over the years). Here's the thought:

    Battery is low, stator is weak or there's a poor connection that inhibits enough power generation to run the engine at higher rpm for a period of time. Insufficient juice to the CDI, engine quits.

    Since the battery is in a low state, or connection is poor, the recovery time on the battery is insufficient to spin the starter immediately. It has enough juice to engage the bendix on the flywheel, but not spin the engine. ..Or, bad solenoid as you've pointed out..has been engaged, drains battery leading to same symptom.

    After an extended period of time, the battery recovers with enough to start the ski. What looks like a bearing/engine seize situation is actually something else.

    If seen this type of thing with cars back in the 60s/70s where the battery was on the line and if you gave it time to recover, would start the car.

    what say you?

  11. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    46,529
    +1
    2,709
    The red carb engine CDI is a bit of a hybrid, best I can tell. There is an AC exciter coil on the magneto to provide high energy to the capacitive discharge (ignition primary coil pulsed energy) portion of the ignition but uses 12 volt battery power to run the computer chip inside the CDI.

    Both must be within operational parameters or the engine will not run, or run poorly.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Polaris 2001 Virage i troubles, high RPM, replaced engine twice
    By DJOM4R in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-25-2016, 06:50 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-06-2011, 07:53 AM
  3. 2002 virage i high rpm problem
    By shur-katch in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-01-2009, 03:51 PM
  4. Loss of speed and High Rpms
    By njgprider in forum Yamaha PWC Performance (2-stroke)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-02-2006, 11:35 AM
  5. very high rpm low speeds, help
    By JCM in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-25-2006, 12:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •