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  1. #1
    Jakespiteri's Avatar
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    Need some major help.

    I know I have another thread but I wanted to sum everything up in one post. Here's where I'm at right now.

    2002 polaris virage txi

    emm repaired, new tps, new top end, new Ngk spark plugs, new agm battery, fuel pressure regulator fixed, all new fuel lines, all new gaskets, cps in spec, air temp sensor within spec, has a msx flywheel as well.

    now to my problem, the virage starts but it only runs on the pto and cen cylinders. No matter what I do the mag cyldiners won't run.
    - has fuel pressure
    - all 3 plugs have spark
    - 25 volts when cranking on the injectors, and 42 when running. All 3 have the same voltage
    - all 3 injectors are firing because all 3 plugs are wet

    ive swapped around plug wires and ignition coils to isolate the probelm, no matter what the mag will not run. It's driving me mad, this cylinder should be running it has spark, fuel, and compression.

    i called Harris from fichtemmrepair, he's the one that repaired my emm. He told me to swap around injectors and see if the problem moves, if so then the injector could be leaking a lot of fuel on that one plug causing it to no spark.

    I Had tried swapping them around and I made sure they were in the right spots as well, nothing changed. I even swapped out the tips and core of the injectors with another set I had laying around, still no change.

    The only other thing I can think of is the stator. But what doesn't make sense to me is that I have spark which would rule the stator being okay?

    i did a stator ohm test and these are my readings:
    1-12 : 5 ohms
    2-11 : 5 ohms
    3-10 : 7 ohms
    4-9 : 7 ohms
    5-8 : 7 ohms

    Im at a total loss here, not sure where to go next


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    I have a feeling you may end up meeting me in person...

  3. #3
    Jakespiteri's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm gonna need your help lol. I'm gonna try some more testing today and see how it goes.

    I have a feeling it has something to do with the either the injectors or emm.

    Check your pms

  4. #4
    Jakespiteri's Avatar
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    update:

    ive tried to swap around more injectors as well, but nothing has changed.

    i thought maybe the mag cylinder spark plug wasn't grounding properly to the head so i swapped it with the pto head and still the same thing.

    when it comes down to it, its either a spark or fuel issue here. when i pull the plug from the head and ground it and run the engine on the centre and pto cylinders, there is lots blue spark on the plug.

    the cylinder is also wet with fuel as well as the spark plug. this makes me believe that there is still spark but could the injector be shutting down when it switches over to the 45v circuit?

    but if it is indeed loosing spark and the injector was always firing wouldn't it cause that cylinder to flood with fuel and there would be a substantial amount in the cylinder?

    all 3 injectors show 43 volts when the engine is running. i was looking through the manual in the ficht section and found this out of the PODIAG section:

    The FFIt fuel injector will make an audible clicking
    sound each time it’s activated. This sound indicates
    the injector is being activated by the EMM and that the
    injector armature is moving. You can also use a timing
    light connected to either (but not both) injector leads to
    see if the injector is being triggered by the EMM.


    If the timing light flashes and the injector clicks, the in-
    jector is most likely functioning as designed. If the light
    flashes but the injector does not click, the injector is
    probably damaged. If the timing light does not flash,
    the problem is probably not in the injector but in the
    fuses, wiring, or EMM.


    this test seems like the only way i can check to see if the injector is indeed firing without having another head to bolt it onto handy.

    would i just have one side of the timing light connected to a ground and the other connected to the red/white wire of the desired injector using a jumper?

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    After spending way too much time checking non-EMM possible causes, a known good EMM was installed and the engine immediately behaved normally. Cylinder drop tests were consistent across all three cylinders.

    So the repaired EMM is now going to be sent back for additional repairs.


    However, prior to installing that good EMM...

    With the very recently repaired EMM the MAG cylinder was not actually firing despite having spark and fuel injection. When we took the cylinder heads off for inspection the MAG piston dome was really wet with fuel and very clean, looked like it had never seen fire. Inline spark testers on all three cylinders showed consistent spark action.

    With the repaired EMM a cylinder drop test (using DW) of either CEN or PTO would cause the engine to stumble and quickly shut down. Dropping the MAG cylinder via DW had no noticeable effect on the running engine.

    No EMM trouble codes were found, even after multiple engine runs on the trailer.

    This machine had some unusual prior repairs. Apparently at some point the exhaust had overheated as the two upper resonators were missing and the rubber exhaust U hose from the engine to water had been spliced together (badly) with a short section of 3 inch SS tubing. The steering or reverse cable (forget which) looked like it had melted against the water box at some time.

    What was surprising was that the factory fittings for exhaust water spray cooling had been removed and replaced with larger aluminum hose fittings. Instead of a controlled water spray into the exhaust pipe this would have provided a torrent of water! We replaced these with stock mesh screen fitting and flow restrictor orifice into the exhaust pipe.

    During testing the engine initially would start up right away. After hooking up the inline spark testers there was no engine start, just cranking. Yep, the battery was getting weak. 30 minutes on an 8 amp charger and it started right up again. Took more than a couple of hours at 8 Amps to get it fully charged, so the battery was really run down. A weak battery can confound diagnostics, so take the time to ensure the battery actually does have strong voltage while crankin.. This one was sagging below 10.0 volts before we charged it.

    Someone had also removed the insides from the thermostat housing, which is not a good thing on a Ficht engine. Jake will be installing the necessary parts so the engine will have proper temperature control.

    Once the EMM is fully operational Jake will have a nice Virage TXi. Hull and deck look good, hull interior is fairly clean.
    Last edited by K447; 07-07-2015 at 04:04 PM.


  6. #6
    Ghostrider55's Avatar
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    Have you checked the pop off pressure on that side? I wasn't getting fuel to two cylinders and the pop off pressure was wayn to high to get fuel.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider55 View Post
    Have you checked the pop off pressure on that side?

    I wasn't getting fuel to two cylinders and the pop off pressure was way too high to get fuel.
    No carburetors on a Ficht engine, so no pop-off setting to adjust.

  8. #8

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    Please keep this thread updated.....will be interesting to see how Harris handles the EMM return and repair. I wonder if he bench tests them before sending them out? Seems it would be fairly easy to do.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkernea View Post
    ... I wonder if he bench tests them before sending them out? ...
    That is my understanding, but I do not know the specifics.

  10. #10
    Jakespiteri's Avatar
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    I contacted Harris today and shipped out the emm. He said he will take a look at it and fix it free of cost. I will keep this thread updated with what happens.

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