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  1. #1
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    MSX 150 / MSX 110 DIY ECU Reflash?

    Has anyone investigated what it might take to reflash the ECU in the MSX 150 / 110? I understand its a Bosch Motronic ME7.4.4. A search of the internet suggests that the automotive versions of the ME7 have been accessed by DIY types. If you've looked into it, what are the barriers to success? (It would be nice to be able to restore a factory original flash to an ECU that has gotten "Stuck on Stupid" due to bad sensor data, for example...) I suppose there is the brute force method of pulling the flash memory and reading/writing to it in a flash programmer, but it would be nice to do it via a digital interface without unsoldering IC's...

  2. #2
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Only person I know who figured out how to do it... Deperado... made a business of it. Aka... Martin at Precision Sports. There are threads back from his active days here that talk about what and sorta how he does it.

    He can also be found on sites dealing with Polaris FST sleds and the like... the Polaris Files (?). He also did reflashes for the sled ECUs Bosch M7.4.4. I recall seeing a few others in that realm that also did what Martin did... with some drama in that regards too.

    He's some info regarding his ECU cracking... from my notes (old threads)
    Custom Reflashing Info

    It took me nearly 8 months (5/31/09) to achieve full decoding of the ME7.4.4 ECU Eeprom memory and assemble hex code into relevant maps. I have also developped the required serial communication protocol and checksum recalculation to safely reflash these ECU's with custom tuned maps.

    The maps & function I can access and custom tune are:
    1- base fuel map (part load),
    2- fuel correction at startup (warming up),
    3- wot fuel map and idle lambda target value,
    4- ignition timing,
    5- ignition timing correction versus: a-) boost, b-) air intake temperature, c-) coolant temperature
    6- maximum boost pressure limiter
    7- target boost across rpm/load range
    8- load versus throttle position
    9- air mass flow volume
    10- torque limiter
    11- ETB position versus load (anti-cavitation feature)
    12- constant boost pressure control

    The above is all what is really needed to build a good custom Eeprom image. Modifying the software is out of my league...... and not required to achieve the results I am looking for.
    The only way to retrieve codes on the ME7.4.4 ECU is to use Polaris Digital Wrench. Note that the ECU is OBDII compliant, but the serial communication plug is different from OBDII and the code read protocol is likely different from the automotive industry. The codes themselves are the same as in the automotive industry and can be retreived and crossed reference using standard "P" definitions......

    And this gem from steelroe...
    I got the follwing info from a guy that was involves in the ECU programming for the MSX150.

    I have a quick response back from some people who still remember the system & it did reveal some potential.

    The scenario described to me has to do with boost control adaption where the engine controller "learns" control parameters (wastegate solenoid duty cycle versus boost pressure, etc.) when there's a fault in the system, (boost leak, bad sensor, etc.) and when the fault has been fixed, these learned parameters are incorrect & can cause trouble codes to set when there is no longer a problem.

    The the concept of a reflash fixing some problems does have some validity although it has nothing to do with reprogramming the ECU. A side-effect of reflashing the ECU is that it causes all the learned values to reset to their "default" settings which often times eliminates the "learned bad behavior". Unfortunately there's no other way to force this reset happen other than a reflash.

    The other means to get the ECU to learn the correct parameters is to operate the vehicle throughout the range of operating conditions without setting a trouble code. In your case the suggestion was to run the boat above 3000 RPM at something higher than 50% load for a long period of time. The key is not to operate in a mode that causes the over boost code to show up as this will undo the learning process.

    The goal is to get the engine to operate under boost without a trouble code present long enough for it to start to learn the correct boost control parameters.

    This "learning process" is an alternative to a reflash (or reset) and given enough time will accomplish the same result as a reset would have. So in essence, if a reset would have fixed the problem, the relearning procedure will be equally as effective. If however there's still a mechanical/electrical or other fault in the system neither a reset or relearn is going to resolve the problem.
    Cheers!

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  4. #4
    hill160881's Avatar
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    Queen racing uses Vipec control system. He does not deal with rec riders like us and our stock skis. I have not gotten any responses since my first interaction with Mark over a year ago. I wanted some advice on programming my built weber but got nothing after three emails and two calls. Essiencially if you are not paying for a race engine he wants nothing to do with you.

    I admire what he does but think he is all about the money, helping someone out is not on his schedule.

    The weber engines he builds are not even close to stock. The head has C&C machine work done, different valves, different springs, different cam.... The block is bored and sleeved, the crank is custom made and he uses CP Pistons and rods.... The head gasket is custom and uses a fire ring.....
    A long block cost 14k from him......

    But it would be interesting to see what a 400 hp weber terminator 1000 would do in an MSX hull.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-13-2016 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #5
    hill160881's Avatar
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    My precision tune ended up not being what I needed. I feel I communicated what I was going for but was not herd. Over all it performs as advertised. With more compression and a better intake I feel there is a lot more to be had.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-13-2016 at 04:15 PM.

  6. #6
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    For where you're going with your ski... I can understand your feelings about the Precision reflash.

    For others... with a stock ski... wanting a little more performance. I feel the PS reflash delivers as advertised. I will admit it is a tad pricey for what you get. But I'm glad there is an option.

    Compatible with all MSX150 using stock intercooler and impeller as well as all MSX110 using an upgraded intercooler and impeller

    Technical specifications:
    • Boost pressure set at 16.5psi instead of 14psi
    • Soft rev limiter eliminated
    • Full power available to 7,800rpm with no ECU power derating.
    • Improved boost curve at mid-range to lower EGT
    • Custom fuel calibration with safer AFR across all RPM sectors
    • Custom ignition timing map with less air temperature retard compensation
    • Improved idle fuel calibration
    • Improved mid-range fuel calibration to promote better fuel economy at cruise speed
    • All OEM engine protections remain functional.
    This reflash version is the most aggressive currently offered by Precision Sports for MSX150 and MSX110 using premium pump gas and also using the stock K03 turbocharger.
    This reflash is safe as all engine protections have been left intact. This is why some power derating may be felt on lower octane gas... the ECU has full control to protect your engine against knock.

    But back on topic. Would it be sweet to be able to tweak our own ECUs? Heck yeah!

    Cheers!

  7. #7
    Mike Greenwood's Avatar
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    Indeed

  8. #8
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Here is perhaps a place to start: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

  9. #9

    .....reflash the ECU in the MSX 150 / 110

    Quote Originally Posted by HiPeRcO View Post
    Has anyone investigated what it might take to reflash the ECU in the MSX 150 / 110? I understand its a Bosch Motronic ME7.4.4. A search of the internet suggests that the automotive versions of the ME7 have been accessed by DIY types. If you've looked into it, what are the barriers to success? (It would be nice to be able to restore a factory original flash to an ECU that has gotten "Stuck on Stupid" due to bad sensor data, for example...) I suppose there is the brute force method of pulling the flash memory and reading/writing to it in a flash programmer, but it would be nice to do it via a digital interface without unsoldering IC's...



    Hello to all (first of all) i just register to this forum .
    I own two jet ski msx110 .
    Indeed , the ecu on them is bosch ME7.4.4 . I was doing some research regarding tuning for the ecu's. As far as i get there is no way to open the map file in any tuning software . No one has created a definition file for this maps.

    I manage to read the flash file using a ktag unit and the protocol 57

    (You can read the flash memory by one wire k-line,two wires power and one ground .also you need to solder a wire for boot mode. You need a ktag unit from aliexpress and you need to open the ecu which is easy to do it) .

    As soon as i read the flash file i get an checksum error at the end of file. I read both ecu's and i get the same result. I was trying to open the flash file in ECM TITANIUM, WINOLS, and some other software's but with no result. There is no definition for this maps.

    Without knowing the definition for the maps, it is imposible to change any value on the ecu .

    This Bosch ecu me7.4.4 is used also in cars like Peugeot or Citroen . The file size for the cars is 512kb . The file size for polaris is 240kb.

    The main problem witch remains is the checksum. Without it the software for tuning the maps is unable to identify what model of vehicle is uploaded.

    I will keep trying to find a way to read the maps (There is one guy from Canada who managed to read this maps . He is selling his tuned files for this jetski's but you need to send the ecu out)

    Also i need to find a way to make diagnostic on this jetsky since there is no dealer where i live .


  10. #10
    Moderator HiPeRcO's Avatar
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    Welcome! I am already excited about what you have posted. I am on my phone at the moment but will follow up later

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