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  1. #88761
    The most interesting man in the world. Nils888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackwave View Post
    Guilty. I’ll come back with a wall of text for you later.
    Why bother!!! I won't waste the time to read it.


  2. #88762
    Bob 1tommygunner1927's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackwave View Post
    Please make a distinction between “source” and “operational contact”. Page was unwittingly used by the CIA to track how Russian agents were attempting to recruit him. He did not work with or for the CIA.

    Yes, all of that happened before the Trump campaign. Page was a person of interest to the FBI before, during, and after his work on the Trump campaign, though.

    Yes, a DOJ lawyer actively changed an email from the CIA in response from the FISA judge presiding over the THIRD renewal demanding to know whether or not Page had ever been an intelligence asset. The lawyer has been fired, charged, and prosecuted, which is appropriate and deserved. That’s part of the rationale for my comment on FISA court reform, because abuses like this should not require an independent investigation to uncover.

    Hearsay is not and should not be sufficient for requesting a wiretap warrant. In conjunction with collaborative evidence it may be used. Raw intelligence is nearly always second and third hand recounting, but that does not mean it can’t be or hasn’t been verified.

    And yes, everyone involved in the Capitol Building storming should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law based on their actions, and regardless of political philosophy or allegiance. If the Democrats screw this up by over-politicizing this or over-reaching it’s going to be a brutal midterm, but people are pissed and demanding action, accountability, and consequences. The real silent majority, centrist America, has had enough and wants change.

    Carter Page, by his own admission, was a source for the CIA. He was not an employee of said agency or in any other capacity other than a "source", and therefore not "operational", as in the the usual sense of the word. This fact was documented in communications from CIA to the FBI, and was subsequently changed to state Page was in fact NOT a source of the CIA; the basis for which spying on Trump and his people before and during his administration via FISA warrants. You can try to spin this, however, your assertions are false. An FBI lawyer (not an Agent or DOJ lawyer) falsified the official government documents. His name is Kevin Clinesmith:
    https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-lawyer-pl...160600549.html

    Raw Intelligence must be vetted, always. This is why the Steele dossier and CNN, MSNBC et al (main stream news media) are not trust worthy.


  3. #88763
    Like a chimp with a ball-peen hammer smackwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tommygunner1927 View Post
    Carter Page, by his own admission, was a source for the CIA. He was not an employee of said agency or in any other capacity other than a "source", and therefore not "operational", as in the the usual sense of the word. This fact was documented in communications from CIA to the FBI, and was subsequently changed to state Page was in fact NOT a source of the CIA; the basis for which spying on Trump and his people before and during his administration via FISA warrants. You can try to spin this, however, your assertions are false. An FBI lawyer (not an Agent or DOJ lawyer) falsified the official government documents. His name is Kevin Clinesmith:
    https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-lawyer-pl...160600549.html

    Raw Intelligence must be vetted, always. This is why the Steele dossier and CNN, MSNBC et al (main stream news media) are not trust worthy.
    "Operational" in this context simply means he was actively used, not that he was an operative. You're right, Page was considered a source, and the communications were doctored to say that he was not a source. I screwed up my recollection of terms, but that wasn't an attempt at spin.

    You're overreaching. Trump wasn't spied on with electronic surveillance, and neither was his campaign. Carter Page was no longer working with/for the Trump campaign when the surveillance warrants were issued. The IG report found that the FISA warrants would have been issued even without the dossier, and in fact the first one was. The dossier was not a basis of anything, it was just a contributor.

    Anybody who watches 24 hour cable news channels for their primary source of information is an idiot, I don't care which one or ones.

  4. #88764
    Q in Arizona's Avatar
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    Amazon Bans Parler for “Violence” But Allows “Kill All Republicans” T-Shirts





    Always Remember: The Left is projecting on you what they are doing in spades.



    Last week the tech giants colluded together in an attempt to destroy social media alternative Parler.

    The final straw came when far left Amazon banned Parler from using its cloud service.


    This shut down the popular app after millions of conservatives flocked to Parler after Twitter began purging top conservative thought leaders including the President of the United States.


    Amazon said it was due to “violence” on the app which is an excuse and a lie.



    Parler is still struggling to replace Amazon’s cloud service.


    Ryan Fournier later pointed out that Amazon is selling “Kill all Republicans” on its website.


    But Parler is the problem?



    Amazon banned Parler, but allowed people to buy this shirt from their website.
    Unbelievable. pic.twitter.com/GDEzKlFV1L
    — Ryan Fournier (@RyanAFournier) January 16, 2021



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  5. #88765
    Q in Arizona's Avatar
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    Biden to Offer Pathway to Citizenship for 11 Million Illegal Aliens in First Few Days in Office



    Goodbye Republican party.



    Joe Biden plans to introduce legislation to Congress that would provide a pathway to citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens currently living in the US.


    The Democrats stole the executive branch and legislative branch with a massive voter fraud operation and they will use their power to permanently entrench their party.


    Every single Republican better fight this legislation with everything they have.



    The Los Angeles Times reported:


    During his first days in office, President-elect Joe Biden plans to send legislation to congress that would provide a pathway to citizenship for 11 million immigrants who are in the country without legal status.


    Biden’s legislation does not include money to support detention and deportation. Previous immigration bills passed under both Democratic and Republican administrations linked an expansion of immigration with stepped-up enforcement and security measures.


    The bill would provide a shorter pathway to citizenship for people with Temporary Protected Status, for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival (DACA) recipients and likely also for certain frontline essential workers, vast numbers of whom are immigrants.


    Biden’s proposal would be the most sweeping and comprehensive immigration package since President Reagan’s in 1986 Immigrants would become eligible for legal permanent residence after 5 years and wait 3 more years for U.S. citizenship.


    Read the full report from the Los Angeles Times here.


    Breaking: During his first days in office, President-elect Joe Biden plans to send legislation to congress that would provide a pathway to citizenship for 11 million immigrants who are in the country without legal status. https://t.co/z0ImiAT6OM
    — Los Angeles Times (@latimes) January 16, 2021



    Link


  6. #88766
    Q in Arizona's Avatar
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  7. #88767
    Q in Arizona's Avatar
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    Our Mounting Orwellian Nightmare



    So we are to imagine that those who objected to Biden's having stolen the election are responsible for the violence at the Capitol? And that, going forward, any public official who questions Biden's win should be removed from office, and that any corporate leader who objects should be fired? All this when the truth is that Trump in all likelihood won the election.



    It is the perfect example of Orwellian speech. In his classic essay "Politics and the English Language," Orwell spoke of the condition where "words and meaning have almost parted company." If that "almost" is a measure of Orwellian speech, then today's Democrat leaders are beyond Orwellian. Their words and meaning have parted company entirely.



    As Orwell also stressed, the decline of language is both cause and effect of the decline of politics. When politicians and media begin speaking nonsense, it is the symptom of an underlying corruption of political thinking. The idea that the president should be removed from office for having defended the electoral process is truly bizarre, but it has been repeated throughout the liberal media and by most liberal politicians and even by some conservatives.



    One might say progressives like Nancy Pelosi have become "unhinged," but that would let them off the hook. It would suggest that they don't quite realize what they are doing. But what they are doing is the result of crafty political calculation.

    They want to tie President Trump with the Capitol violence to the point that he can never run again. The same political deviousness lies behind suggestions that he should not be in control of the nation's nuclear arsenal because of his supposed mental instability.



    None of these charges has anything to do with the truth. Those most responsible for the Capitol disturbance were those who rigged the presidential election, and certainly these individuals and those who coordinated their efforts or knew in advance or concealed information afterward should be punished. One might say those who committed acts of violence on the Hill should be punished to the same extent that Antifa and BLM rioters were punished last summer.



    But the charges against President Trump are Orwellian in that they invert the truth. The president argued, as he had every right to do, that the election was rigged, and he urged peaceful protest to defend our republic.



    Even the president's calming words on the afternoon of the Capitol break-in have been met with Orwellian reaction. When President Trump said, "Go home. Go in peace," the media charged him with inciting further violence because he expressed his "love" for his supporters. That expression of love did more than anything to get them to go home.



    In a further Orwellian twist, Biden and his cronies appear to have adopted many of President Trump's ideas for running the country, but they can't admit where those ideas came from. Biden's not entirely sure we can afford to forgive all student debt, and he now believes that the existing border policies are necessary for the time being.

    Gov. Cuomo now says we must "open things up," just as President Trump and many conservative governors said we should. But he can't admit that the idea came from conservatives — it's his idea. None of these ideas was right when Trump was president — they're right only after Biden takes office.

    The media will go along with this lie, in typical Orwellian fashion.


    More!


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  8. #88768
    Q in Arizona's Avatar
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    Army Veteran Arrested After Allegedly Calling For Attacks Against Florida Trump Protesters…





    Via NY Post:
    A former airborne infantryman was arrested Friday on charges he issued a call to attack protesters Sunday at Florida’s state Capitol.


    Daniel Alan Baker, 33, of Tallahassee, Florida, faces a federal charge involving transmitting a threat to kidnap or injure, the Tallahassee Democrat reported.


    Prosecutors described Baker as a “hard-core leftist” who was angry about the January 6. siege of the U.S. Capitol.


    The former soeceived a less-than-honorable discharge from the Army after he went AWOL when his unit was to deploy to Iraq, according to the Miami Herald.


    Keep reading..


    Link



    Also more...

    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ce/4175324001/
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  9. #88769
    Bob 1tommygunner1927's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackwave View Post
    "Operational" in this context simply means he was actively used, not that he was an operative. You're right, Page was considered a source, and the communications were doctored to say that he was not a source. I screwed up my recollection of terms, but that wasn't an attempt at spin.

    No problem, it happens at times.

    You're overreaching. Trump wasn't spied on with electronic surveillance, and neither was his campaign. Carter Page was no longer working with/for the Trump campaign when the surveillance warrants were issued. The IG report found that the FISA warrants would have been issued even without the dossier, and in fact the first one was. The dossier was not a basis of anything, it was just a contributor.

    Anybody who watches 24 hour cable news channels for their primary source of information is an idiot, I don't care which one or ones.
    Carter Page was the target of a false FISA warrant. Anyone he contacted via electronic means, the entire contact was recorded. Page was in contact with Trump. Every word spoken/written was recorded. Trump was spied upon! He was an indirect target, that was the Actual target!

    The Steele dossier:
    https://news.yahoo.com/ex-fbi-agent-...193459573.html


  10. #88770
    Like a chimp with a ball-peen hammer smackwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tommygunner1927 View Post
    Carter Page was the target of a false FISA warrant. Anyone he contacted via electronic means, the entire contact was recorded. Page was in contact with Trump. Every word spoken/written was recorded. Trump was spied upon! He was an indirect target, that was the Actual target!

    The Steele dossier:
    https://news.yahoo.com/ex-fbi-agent-...193459573.html
    The article you linked doesn’t back up your point. There’s nothing to substantiate the actual target was Trump, at all. Even Barr won’t go that far, and he’s had plenty of opinions on the subject. Neither IG Horowitz’s report or anything out of the hand picked prosecutor Durham gives any indication that communications with the Trump campaign, much less Trump himself, were gathered in the bulk data collection on Page. Makes sense, since (again) Page was no longer working with the campaign while he was under surveillance, and even in the campaign Page wasn’t at a level where he’d report to Trump.

    Was the entire surveillance operation on Page a complete clusterF? Yes. The only people claiming it was a bad faith operation are Trump’s political flunkies, though, so you’ll have to pardon me if that stinks of political opportunism.

    I’ll throw Page under the bus, here - he’s simply not a sympathetic character. He’s one of those guys with big aspirations to be a player in Russian international power brokering who’s constantly over his head and still digging. That he was identified as a target for FISA surveillance isn’t surprising, that three renewals were issued with no apparent useful intelligence gathered is an absolute failure of the FISA warrant process, as pointed out in the IG report.

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